Episode 47 - Moving Generosity from Obligation to Opportunity with Daryl Heald
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Today’s guest is a friend of the podcast, someone we look up to and respect, but someone we’re also happy to call a friend. Daryl Heald is the Founder of Generosity Path. For more than twenty years, Daryl has traveled internationally sharing the message of biblical generosity.
In his role with Generosity Path he focuses on mission-related activities: strengthening and developing relationships with champions, facilitating Journeys of Generosity (or JOGs) and trainings, as well as encouraging businesspeople to be generous.
He’s here to share his personal story, to give us a primer on what it means to be generous, and explain why you never meet an unhappy generous person.
Episode Transcript
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Daryl Heald: The big idea here is for us to see it as opportunity, not obligation. Right, so we kind of think that when you say investing, giving generosity, the investing side implies opportunity, right? Because we all like, hey, here's a great opportunity. It's right. Everything every deck built on that. Right. Every pitch is built on what's the opportunity. Right. What's the potential? What's the upside? How much am I going to make? What's the game? Right. Well, if we really understand scripture, which is why I ask you the why question on your giving.
So it's not about the tactics of giving. It's about why and why is the answer and why is important because the answers to the why question our beliefs.
Henry Kaestner: Thanks, everybody, for joining us again this week on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our guest today is a friend of the podcast, someone we look up to and respect, but more importantly, someone we're also happy to call a good friend. Darryl Heald is the founder of Generosity Path. For more than 20 years, Darryl has traveled internationally, sharing the message of biblical generosity in his role with generosity path. He focuses on mission related activities, strengthening and developing relationships with champions, facilitating journeys of generosity or jox and training, as well as encouraging business people to be generous. He's here today to share his personal story, to give us a primer on what it means to be generous and explain why you never meet an unhappy, generous person. Let's listen in.
Welcome back to the future of an investor podcast. I'm here with my great friend, business partner, confidante Luke Roush. Luke. Welcome back. Good to be here. Dude, we got a great guest. You know, a lot of times when we have guests on, I do some amount of prep. A lot of times I don't. But most of the times I do. And I'll be honest with you, I didn't do any prep because I knew we had Darryl. And Darryl is one of our best friends in the world, is a guy that if you've listen to this podcast or at least a Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast long enough, you know that there are two major foundational faith moments in my life. At age twenty eight, I came to know Jesus through God, speaking to me through his word in a very patient associate pastor. And then at age 38, I got introduced to this guy named Darryl Heald. And Darryl came to know me and endeavored to understand some of my story. And then he stopped maybe two hours into it and said, hey, I think I'm following this. But why do you give? I talked a little bit about why I was talking a little bit about some of the different ministry things that Kimberly and I were involved in at the time. We were given probably 20 percent of why we thought there's a special place in heaven for the double tither. You get box seats at Angel games or something like that. There's something in it for me, undoubtedly. And that simple question from Darryl sent me, Raylan, and sent me back to Scripture and allowed me to just have a completely different and renewed relationship with God. And I'm forever grateful to Darryl for that. I wanted to get involved in the ministries that he was running. He's a co-founder of Generous Giving, founder of Generosity Path, and he loves bringing the biblical message of generosity to people as they come to know God more fully. And it's a great message. And I love our friendship and our partnership in ministry and so many other things. He formative in the starting of sovereigns, capital and his journey with us through every step of the way. And it is an embarrassment and an oversight that we have not had him on the program, any of our programs. So I'm really grateful. Thank you for join us. Maybe we'll start off by talking about a ministry that is really important to you at this time of year that has nothing to do with generosity or actually it has everything to do with generosity, smoking for Jesus. What is it?
Daryl Heald: I don't get some smoking for Jesus. All right. We're diving right in. This is one of my favorite topics. Well, I'm a Texan and I think it's just in our blood to smoke meat. And I tell you, it was I mean, just one of these amazing gifts twelve years ago that God gave me a friend here in town, man named Big Kenneth Johnson, who also loves to smoke, mate. He's a Tennessee. And and, you know, through God's providence, he brought us together. And we are at lunch one day. And I said, you know, Kenneth, what's your dream? And he said, you know, there's a lot of people hurting out there.
And, you know, I like to help him.
And his brother's a great preacher and things like that because I'm not a preacher. He's I just like smoked meat. And I said, I think we got something like we got something there. And so we started smoking for Jesus and we just started would take our smokers and we'd go into some of the housing projects and. We said our smokers just brought the aroma of Christ, and if you want to draw a crowd said, you know, you got three components that will always draw a crowd smoke, fire and meat, and you will draw a crowd. And sure enough, he did. And he was the oldest of 13 kids, no father. He grew up in these different housing projects back in the civil rights era and 10 years older, me, one of my mentors and best friends, he went to be with the Lord last year. A huge loss for me there. But we continue the ministry. We just smoke. Two hundred and forty turkeys for Thanksgiving takes us about forty two hours of continuous smoking. We're hoping to do three hundred at Christmas and it was very interesting. We took Kenneth, we just had a notebook and his distribution system is he would call up different people he knew. That worked with refugees or worked with widows or worked with homeless people, teachers at school that knew kids that were in trouble and needed help, it was just a hand ledger. And so for 12 years, we have his notes from these hand ledgers, and that's what we went off of this year. His wife, Connie, just worked off that ledger and called all the people and said how many turkeys you need? And they would say, well, I need five. I need eight, I need six. And we welcome and that's our gift to the community and we feed. Well, covid has been a terrible year for us. Last year we had twenty seven events and fed well over ten thousand people a year. And yeah, just a simple history of loving people this way and being able to do it with our past and we just stay up all night smoking butts.
And what meat would you say most resembles the aroma of Christ?
Well, so we always have this, you know, people that know barbecue, which I just said, I'm a Texan. He's a Tennessean. The big rivals here are brisket versus pork butt and pulled pork versus the brisket. So I'm a beef guy. And so, you know, we didn't argue too often, but basically I did the beef and he did the pork and it was a good teamwork.
Luke Roush: That's awesome. Body of Christ in action.
Henry Kaestner: That's right. So we started talking at the outset about the impact you've had in my life and in others lives. And it comes down to this concept that I think is really important for the faith driven investor. And on one hand, somebody might say, what is investing have to do with generosity and at one glance kind of their distant cousins? Yes, they have to do with money. And yes, there's faith in there somewhere. But I think that we're coming to understand with time that it's all kind of lumped up into the same concept. And I'm hoping that you might be able to help us unpack that a little bit and refine it a little bit, because my sense is that it's a similar DNA and similar heart posture that allows for somebody to be a good faith driven investor as well as a generous person. And maybe you can help us sort through that. What's a heart posture? What's a mindset? Somebody is listening as podcast and saying, what does it mean to be a feature investor? Where do I start? How would you help them with that?
Daryl Heald: Yeah, well, I don't think they're distant cousins at all. I think they're the same. But I think the big idea here is for us to see it as opportunity, not obligation. So we kind of think that when you say investing, giving generosity, the investing side implies opportunity, right? Because we all like, hey, here's a great opportunity and. Right everything. Every decs built on that. Right. Every pitch is built on what's the opportunity. Right. What's the potential? What's the upside? How much am I going to make? What's the game? Right. Well, if we really understand scripture, which is why I ask you the why question on your giving.
So it's not about the tactics of giving. It's about why and why is it answering? Why is important?
Because the answers to the why question our belief. And so none of us act on unbelief. We only act on belief. But here's where I want to make the connection is it is all about the investment because it's all about our stewardship. One hundred percent. Right. So we have a hundred percent that whatever God has entrusted to us as a steward. But the big idea is not like, well, now you're obligated as a steward to do well and you better do good. Otherwise, I'm going to you know, I'm going to get you know, it's really about the opportunity I'm giving you to be the steward. And so it's about allocation. Right. And so it's all about to me, investment is the same. Meaning whether you're investing in a for profit or you're investing in a ministry in the kingdom, right. Because to me it's all about queendom investment. And so then it's allocation into different types of asset classes on this, and that's where I think we hurt ourselves when we bifurcate it, because then we think differently. We allocate differently. If I'm saying, oh, this is a for profit investment and this is my type of return, and then I have this conversation, oh, this is now a different conversation. If it's to a ministry and this is right pocket, left pocket, never the twain shall meet.
Henry Kaestner: And just the whole process is different when you're suggesting that it's not it's the same type of fundamental process to endeavor to understand how do I steward and how do I lean into this opera? And I think you mentioned something really important there is that I think the two oftentimes people think, well, it's an obligation. And I think that there is an element of us being held accountable. But that's not the way God designed a guy designed us, gave us an opportunity to participate in the work that he is doing in his kingdom. And we can participate alongside. And you're suggesting there's that type of mindset that can guide both our giving and our investing?
Daryl Heald: That's right. Well, I think we have one hundred dollars and how we choose to allocate that in a stewardship side. Because here's the fun thing is a lot of the different entrepreneurs that we see here in the US that are faith driven, we see globally that are faith driven, the lines have begun to blur, actually, even between what is traditional ministry, what is a traditional investment, you know, from a philosophical side or learned a lot from a friend that works at the Omidyar Network, Randy Newcome, and he told me how the Amedi are set up their investment. They said, look, this is not, you know, so typically you go looking for money from the Omidyar's and you say, well, if you're a for profit, you go talk to these people. You're not for profit. You go talk with these people. What beer are figured out is Nagas know, I want great people with great ideas and in the continuum of capital, I'll figure out what type of capital I need to allocate to it. But I see it all the same. And I think that's where we've kind of traditionally bifurcated this. I think this is all about Kingdome investment here, regardless of whether it's a not for profit or for profit entity.
Luke Roush: So as as you think about some things that are maybe better capitalized with for profit dollars and other things that are better capitalized, and what's your methodology? Darrel's you think about kind of what goes into what bucket, because the concern might be that you got something that really should be for profit, but somebody just wants a better valuation. So they end up kind of cassin is kind of a non profit deal or vice versa. How do you think about that just in your own practice?
Daryl Heald: Well, I think there can be. This was the interesting thing that I actually learned again from the middle class is there's this continuum of capital. So you can take a great person with a great idea that in some ways sometimes has started maybe as not for profit, maybe in the in some of the early, early stages. It might have done that. There are actually a number of what I'm beginning to see are actually either for profits or not for profits, attaching the complementary organizational structure to it. Like, for example, news story has started a venture capital fund, which is a not for profit, but they've created a for profit venture capital fund to fund innovation in the building space, because if their big idea on the nonprofit side is to solve the homeless issue, provide great housing to people globally, they realize that in some ways you almost can't get to it in the traditional nonprofit way. And this is where my experience, too, is the difference between, like you have again, this bifurcation. You have two pocket books of what I have to give to a ministry and what I have to invest in a great deal. Well, what I've seen is it's typically a huge multiple of what someone's willing to invest in a great deal versus what they're willing to give.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, well, you know, there's something there that I think is really powerful and I want to make sure that we don't pass over it too quickly because otherwise we might go onto a different subject. You're suggesting that there's a big difference between a bottom up approach, which is the way that most crossfires think about versus a top down approach. So here, what a bottom up approach means. OK, I have a certain amount of money that I'm going to give this year and have a certain amount of money I'm going to invest this year. OK, how am I going to invest it?
Where am I going to get the return? And then you're saying, no, no, no, no. Top down. What are the causes? What are the things you care about? What are the problems you're trying to solve? Start there, go to people, find out what's the best way, what are the best ideas that are out there. And if you do that, you start based on where God is calling you, whether it's justice related or whatever it is, maybe it's housing related, whatever this space is, if you're looking for the best ideas, if you get ten of them, you can come back and there are going to be. Investment ideas, and they're going to be giving opportunities. That's right. Let's start off with the cause and the passion you have first, and that's the top down approach.
Daryl Heald: I like that as well said. Yeah, it is.
Luke Roush: Whatever. So, Daryl, just to kind of ask a follow up to something that we let off with, in your experience, what's kind of the number one thing that keeps people from being generous?
Well, I think it's fear. I mean, there's a number of different other issues, but I would say at the base, a lot of it, it's fear and it's almost like fear of the unknown.
Henry Kaestner: Maybe you could share some stories about some of the people that you've worked with that have given too much money away and are now living despondent and homeless. Paint the worst picture for us. How many times have you seen that happen where people say cash gave away too much money three years ago? I really regret that.
Daryl Heald: Yeah, well, I do remember actually being in Northern California, guys. I do remember being there in Silicon Valley in the late 90s. And for those, they're all still old enough to remember that time. I mean, everything was just going crazy up, up and up. And I remember I met with a venture capitalist, a young venture capitalist, and, of course, everything he'd been given, which is multiplying like crazy. But I had been in this conversation with him about his giving. And so I said, well, OK, great. So you're making all this money, has your giving. And he goes, have you not heard me? He goes, I chilliness, I'm killing. I'm making 70, 80, 90 percent on my money. Why would I give it right now? Why would I give it right now in an badami in these early days, I was like, well, OK, but I said, here's the risk you run right, is what we think is one since the great temporal investment. Right. And he was making a good point. Hey, how much do I let this kind of run before I do give it? And I said. You know, that's legitimate, right? So I get a bigger number to give later, and I said, yeah, the only risk I see in this is that we are at once competing against maybe what a kingdom return is, which we know from a biblical size thirty six to one hundred forty three thousand six thousand ten thousand percent. So when he was, I think, very confident about what he had, but I do remember a follow up conversation. And as you all remember what happened in two thousand. Right. The incredible intimately crash. And it was a very interesting, sobering conversation. But to his credit, he's like, all right, I get it.
I get it. Now, he said, look, maybe I was riding this a little too strong. And he said, I do regret not giving.
Henry Kaestner: No, because is interesting, you said the thirty six hundred fold and that is that OK, so you are so confident in your ability to make money that, by the way, that's probably the first sign that the wheels are about to fall off in the market or whatever you get going on, number one. But number two is that that presumes that the rate of return that you have in human or earthly terms is greater than the spiritual return of what that money or that investment might mean in something that's more attributed to the kingdom of God. So if it's at school that you're investing, that you might otherwise give a donation to in Ghana. Were that a new class of high school seniors might come to know that there's a God who loves them and transforms the trajectory of their life, they're just different types of spiritual returns. And you miss out and it's what you're doing is you're missing out. And it's not the obedience, it's the opportunity. Yeah. You think that the opportunity of making the money in the market is greater than the opportunity of participating in what God is doing the world? Now, let's come into a related and very important topic, which is, does investing with a kingdom mindset necessarily mean that we need to get ready for just mediocre returns and we're just cash? We need to just prepare ourselves for single digit returns, lots of losses. What does it look like to have a when you go ahead and you talk to the and they find the problem that they want to solve or they see the opportunity in a particular region in the world, how do they invest that with excellence? What does that look like? And can it include the spectrum from philanthropy all the way to market returns or market returns? There's just no place for that, because if you're doing market returns, that means you're exploiting something and that necessarily is bad.
Daryl Heald: Now, I think it's part of what we've been discussing here is I think we have to broaden our spectrum here and realize in one sense, what are we trying to accomplish? What are we trying to solve and creatively figure out how that's going to be done. And that's that's in all the different ways. Right? We're looking for great people with great ideas. And then irregardless, however, they're incorporated in what they're doing and how we allocate those, whether it's philanthropic capital or investment capital.
Henry Kaestner: Well, you've been involved in deals like Grab and CloudFactory and in others where you've seen where somebody comes out and says, I've got a mission. I want to be able to bring safety and transparency to a vulnerable population in Southeast Asia. Know, Anthony Tan starts off his business not as a business. It was a ministry. It's going to be five Wannsee three. It just so happened that the easiest the best way for him to accomplish his mission after some counsel from some others ended up being a business. And it's a business worth 14 billion dollars plus. Right. And so when you look to solve a problem with excellence, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not going to be able to deliver financial returns to. I think about Ashoka's Kandarian wanted to be able to love on single moms that were trying to get their cars serviced and being able to provide software to auto shop owners. And he just took in a fifty million dollar investment from Bessemer. Right. Then maybe that's a sign for us, too. So coming back to what you're saying before, start off with the idea and then be open to work out what leads you. Then you talk to these entrepreneurs that say, here's the problem I'm trying to solve, then you can come alongside them and in the marketplace you can actually get good financial returns.
Daryl Heald: Right? Absolutely.
Luke Roush: How do you think about so if what you're really looking for, Daryl, is people who have passion, incompetency about tackling something, then you'll figure out kind of how do you blend the right mix of at market capital and concessionary and or grant capital? But part of what we've seen make really good relationships is where when we as an investor fall in love with the entrepreneurs idea of where they want to go. Let's make sure we don't fall in love with our idea. Make sure we fall in love with their idea within the context of an investor really sensing a call from the Lord about where they might be called to engage or how they might begin the process of engaging in things that the Lords put on their heart. And they go out and kind of find the right people who are also called in that direction. Any tips maybe from when you talk to first time to Henry or others about kind of discovering their passion for why they give? I know there are some specific kind of missional focal points that came out of that discussion between you and Henry, you know, 20 years ago or whatever it was. Any kind of tips for how we might individually discover that with a Lord? You mean what a particular focus or passion would be? Yeah, because, you know, you can go everywhere, right? There's a million different there going on in the world, the thousands of deals. How do you decide kind of how does someone individually discern where they might go?
Daryl Heald: Yeah, that's good. Well, maybe one of the simple things that I've always used to help me discern. God, what are you asking me to do? And John Scott talks about discerning the will of God in a calling, has two components to it. One is a push and the other one's a pull. And so he's saying you need to be aware of contextually aware that if God is pulling you into particular conversations, you're meeting these people and then all of a sudden some of the dots are connecting. Be aware of that. Right, because none of these things are by accident. Right.
It's not randomness and it's not by accident, but it's is God's sovereignty operating to either push you out of a place of comfort and pulling you into this new place and then obviously with prayer and then with the word of God and then the Council of Peers and some friends that can help you discern that, too. But I think to me, one of the things that's been helpful has been those two components, like internally just being aware. Well, you know, I'm getting this pull and I'm seeing not by accident that this person's about this this person is about that. It seems like we're all having the same conversation. Then I should be really aware of that. That's good. So, Henry, at the beginning of the program, you were saying that you have this transformational experience. When I ask you the question, can you elaborate on that a little more?
Henry Kaestner: So today came to faith and I knew that there's a God who loved me and that changed everything, but when I started thing, when I thought about money, money from me was something that was a requirement of me. OK, so God has blessed my business should probably be more generous because there are other people who are not as successful in business and they need finances to run the orphanage or whatever the case is and so can win. I should give more money away and maybe the tide is the right level for us. And then we started getting more generous. We saw some more needs and we thought, gosh, you know, God bless us a lot. We probably should give more. It was a responsibility and an obligation and it was a way of us giving back. If you had asked me at the time what you did, why do you give? I may have even said I want to pay it forward or something like that. Would transform for me, and I think that it does have everything to do with the way that I think about things as the fate of an investor now is that my motivation for giving became one of a sense of gratitude. So when you ask me that question, it wasn't like this all sudden, this light bulb and everything, just like, oh, my goodness, that changes everything. It was over the next six months, every passage in Scripture having something to do about money. It was amazing. It's unbelievable. And listen to this podcast probably can identify with some of that and those passages like God taking five loaves in two fish and feeding five thousand. What does that have to do with money? Well, it had to do with the fact that up until that point in time, I thought that God actually needed me to underwrite the five loaves and two fish. Wait a second. He can take something out of nothing. He doesn't need my lousy money. He just wants me. And then it would be messages just simply about just the gospel and the fact that I came to realize that, you know, why I might give is out of gratitude, not an obligation. And, you know, it took me from this life where faith was important, the real ramifications to just being alive and having a sense of joy. And I get a sense of gratitude. But, you know, with time and over the course, the last 10 or 15 years, especially as I've looked to invest more and more, it's really motivated by the sense that you mentioned before, which is opportunity. And it's it's a special privilege. It's a special, amazing thing to participate in the work that God is doing in the world, not because he needs my capital, but he invites me in. And it's an opportunity to commune with the living guy doing some things that are really, really important. I love the stories of the entrepreneurs we get a chance to invest in, and I love the stories of the funds we get a chance to participate in. It gives me great joy. You know, I'm an investor. Luke and I are both investors. We invest in pattern recognition. OK, so there's a good amount of selfless ambition that drives me now with how I think about generosity and more specifically, faith driven investments when I invest in something has some level of spiritual integration in it, and even better yet, a gospel proclamation element of it, particularly overseas. When I do that, I feel joy. You know what I'm all about getting more joy in my life. And I find that when I'm in line with God's plan for my life and so I want more of it, I get more joy from participating in some of these funds, particularly some of the ones that are emerging now in frontier markets that have got spiritual migration and really making a difference overseas. I just get 20 times more joy than I do for my Vanguard index fund. And so, again, I invest in pattern recognition. I'm going to do more of that. And it's just that's the difference. It's the first way is out of an obligation and now it's an opportunity.
Daryl Heald: I love it. I love it. Yeah, it is is. I mean, joy. Yeah. We'll keep moving into joy. Right. Everyone wants a little bit more of that. See, that's some of the fruit.
You know what I think sometimes to how we kind of misunderstand giving because we think what we've given is gone and like there's no inurement in actually the way God has his designed it is that there's actually there is some future sense of however he's doing the math of laying up treasure in heaven. Right. For Matthew six. But there's actually a Daubert, you know, force here even presently to even described. This is part of, you know, this gratitude and this joy. Right. But so there are some other things that when you look at the grace of giving and we look at the and what's doctrinally what that means, some of the other things that are new to us when we're willing to invest in the things that are unseen, which are eternal, when we're investing in the kingdom, then, you know, things like favor, things like rest, things like lack of fear, lack of anxiety, grace, you know, reward worship, all these things.
These are like true promises in scripture. And that's why he said, you know, move into this. That's why he says it is more blessed to give than receive. That was awesome, dude.
Luke Roush: That was very good. Very good. That was brilliant. That was really awesome. I want to ask a question, Dara. So one of the first times you and I really actually spent some time together was when you brought the journey of generosity to Indonesia. And I had a chance just to kind of see a number of people that I knew well really transformed through that experience. And then, of course, you know, the journey of generosity is really taken off since then in Indonesia and in the region. I'd love just for listeners to be able to hear and get a sense of the scale of how God has worked through those events to be able to just convict people on their hearts, what generosity means to them, and kind of a reframing as you've done with us. So, you know, how far is gone, how many people have been touched. So you've got to be an encouragement.
Daryl Heald: Yeah, thanks. I still remember that that was the first one we had done in that country. And as you know, because you lived there, the Indonesians are fun, man. They love to talk you. So when you're facilitating this, I mean, sometimes you're wondering, OK, or people are going to talk, are they going to share and so on. I mean, every time we threw a question out there, every. And around the table wanted to share, everyone wanted to talk, but the scope of the movement now, so we started generous giving in 2000, the global work started in 2012, and we're in seventy four countries in thirty two languages now. So it's just a testimony of God's word. This is God's message and his movement is how we've always seen it and what I've always stated and what he intends for his church. Right. Because here's the other big idea of, you know, a lot of times, too, we have talked about bifurcation. Sometimes that investment and, you know, the difference between for profit, not for profit investing versus giving. And we also think between the West and the east and, you know, the developed countries and the developing countries. Right. And socioeconomic status and so on. But ultimately, we all have been created and designed to be givers and receivers. And one of the most exciting things that we've seen in this movement globally has been generosity, stories that I could share with you from Venezuela and Zimbabwe and Romania and India and Nepal and places that we would normally think, OK, wait a minute. Like I just got a letter the other day from a guy from Sudan and he's been taking the journey of generosity to Syria and Yemen and in Iraq. And I was like, OK, those I never thought we would have, you know, the generosity movement, OK, might go, you know how many countries you like. I just unfortunately, I typically was thinking we go to the more Western wealthier countries. And I mean, my mind has just been blown the last several years, just seen how guys like my messages for everybody. And this particular the generosity message is not about, you know, socioeconomic status for everyone because we're all givers and receivers. If we understand this, then we all, again, have the opportunity to not only be givers. And so we shouldn't have these kind of hardening of the categories between people that are you know, they live in this country and they have this type of GDP or something like that. Certainly they receivers and I just been blown away with that. That's the fun part. That's the fun part. Again, it just kind of flips the whole deal on its head.
Luke Roush: Yeah, well, you know, something that clicked for me is that we might have something to learn actually from the marketers of the world. The marketers of the world aren't focused on old rich people and younger people who are potential customers for the next 30 or 40 years. And maybe there's something to be learned from that. As you think about let's really invest in the next generation and said demographics are destiny. And there's some truth in that. In a country, like you said, you know, if you can really see something with younger women in a country that's as young as Indonesia is, is just one example. The legacy of that is multi multigenerational and it's not counting down in terms of population, the way Western Europe or Japan or maybe even the US would be net of immigration.
Luke Roush: That's awesome. Thank you for. Yeah. Yeah. Like 60 percent of India's under the age of 35.
Henry Kaestner: Now they're going to be more entrants into the job market in Africa over the next 20 years than India and China combined. So there's something really promising about this next generation. I love the way that you're investing in them. So tell us if you're trying to figure some more of this out, what are some ways for people to get plugged in to this generous journey?
Daryl Heald: Yeah, thanks. Well, you know, we've had to pivot this year and develop all of our experiences online, so typically when we you know, I've mentioned the word journey of generosity that we commonly referred to as a jog. And we've also developed the giving plain retreat coming out of the journey, transformational experience to be able to apply it. So we've developed those online and we'll be happy to to help guide through one.
Henry Kaestner: They're really, really good. I did want the fact that you're now doing them online aloud, Kimberly, I because we get kids at home. Otherwise, typically a journey of generosity happens at a really nice hotel. Somebody pays for it. This is always a very safe thing. Nobody ever asked for any money. And it's really usually at a really nice hotel. But Kimberly's never been able to go to one before. And so this actual format allowed us to do it as a couple. And it was really awesome. And I'd say it was every bit as powerful as the in-person version.
Daryl Heald: Great. Well, that's exciting to hear. We are going again. Holy Spirit does the transformational work. But, you know, you can go to the Generosity Path ERG website and you can contact us and we can help you get into a journey, generosity, experience. So we love to do that for you.
Henry Kaestner: Excellent. We close every one of our episodes off, as you may know, by asking our guests something that they're hearing from God through their time in his word. And it could be this morning, this week, this month. But what's something that you feel that God is speaking to you about right now?
Daryl Heald: Well, I mean, one of the unique things is, you know, you and I do a reading group together. And so we're in the New Testament.
We're actually in second Timothy right now. Second Timothy, one second, Timothy to both. Paul speaks about sharing in the suffering for the sake of the gospel and for the sake of the ELAC. And he speaks in suffering a lot. But that's just jumped out to me again, is to in a convecting way. I love buying into, again, all the things that seem good. Am I also willing to buy in and take a share of the suffering? You know, this is really convecting for me, you know, and as I've had opportunities to interface with a lot of our Christian family around the world, I mean, there's there's a lot of suffering and I see them sharing in that. Well, I'm just personally convicted in my own heart that I need to have more faith and be willing to share in that. The second thing is, is I've been convicted on my motives in whatever I'm doing. I guess back in Thessalonians talks about, you know, did you nothing out of selfish ambition or conceit. Mm hmm. And so I've found myself now using that as almost like a daily mantra. OK, what what is asking myself, why am I doing this? What's my motive here now? Is their pride? Is there you know, is I after something that is just temporal? Right. I need to use that as a check and my spirit.
Henry Kaestner: Sorry, sister versus so obviously both of those are great. I will mention that people that might start off in second. Timothy, go back one chapter before the first Timothy six, which is probably my favorite chapter on giving in the Bible. Second Corinthians eight nine are awesome. But first Timothy six. But I'll tell you, starting to go back through Proverbs with my boys. I've got three teenage boys and Proverbs 16, two and twenty one to speak to exactly what you talking about with this Linton's. And it's almost haunting to me. It's all the man's ways impure to him, but his motives are weighed by the Lord. So gosh, even if I'm conscious of vain conceit and try to steer clear of that and I think that my motives are pure, God really understands how sinful I am, deeper, and it just needs its convicting. And and yet, in a strange way, it's also encouraging that there's a God who knows me that well, who must also love me that much.
And that's a great encouragement for. Thank you, guys.
Daryl Heald: Thanks for having me. I was a real pleasure.
Love, love, love all y'all. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us on today's show. We're very, very grateful for the opportunity to serve the larger faith driven investor community. Hey, the best way for you to stay connected is to sign up for our monthly newsletter at faith driven investor Doug. And while you're there, we, of course, want to hear from you. We derive great joy from interacting with many of you. And it's been very rewarding to see people join the discussion now from all around the world. But it's also very important to us that you feel like this is your show and that you'll help make it something that best equips you on your journey, one that you're proud of and one that you'll share with others.
Host: This podcast, it wouldn't be possible without the help from many of our friends. Executive producer Justin Forman, program director Johnny Will's music by Carl Chigwell. You can see and hear more of his work at summer drag's dotcom and audio and editing by Richard Bahle of Cornerstone Church in San Francisco.