Episode 110 - Beyond Risk and Return with Allison Long Pettine
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Allison Long Pettine is an investor and entrepreneur passionate about supporting leaders who strive to positively impact society. Allison’s approach to investing is built on respect, collaboration and partnership. Because she began her career as one of the first employees of a medical device startup, Allison’s perspective on investing goes beyond simply financial risk and return. She brings over 15 years of venture capital experience to each new venture, taking an active role in her investments, from co-founder to serving on boards. We’re excited to learn more from Allison on the Faith Driven Investor Podcast as she talks about increasing the success rate of entrepreneurs.
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific investment advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
John Coleman: So welcome back to Faith Driven Investor, where we get to talk to a variety of people working in different areas about the intersection of investing in their faith and the way in which they are creating an impact on the world. I'm John Coleman coming to you from Atlanta today. And we are very, very privileged to have Allison Long pertain with us today. It's hard to sum up all of Allison's experience. She's a venture investor. She's been an operator. She's got a variety of passions, I think, in and around the investing world. And we are really privileged to welcome her and learn from her today. Thanks for coming on, Allison.
Allison Long Pettine: Thank you so much for having me.
John Coleman: So, Allison, talk to me a little bit just about your background. Introduce yourself to the community and tell us how you got to where you are today.
Allison Long Pettine: Sure. Typically, I'll just talk about my work background, but I think because this podcast really focuses on the integration of faith and work, my background and my purpose is I think I see God's definition of that is really like precedes me. Even so, my family is originally from China. My dad immigrated here when he was seven and so I'm kind of second generation and I'm also one of three girls. So I have two sisters and I'm the middle. So that kind of frames, just like my childhood, my growing up and I lived with my grandparents, I lived with my dad's parents. And so, you know, just being multicultural, having that whole side of my grandparents, my parents who escaped communist China is very rooted in my identity. And faith has always been a really big part of my life. So my parents raised me and Christian. We prayed every night before dinner, you know, like I grew up reading scripture with my mom. So I think for me, like my first identity, right? My first background is as a Christian, a child of God. And then in terms of my career, I knew really early on. So my dad was an entrepreneur. He started his own real estate business and he kind of was the American dream, right? So he escaped communist China, moved here when he was young, started over his whole family, started over, and then ended up going to UCLA, Harvard Business School, and started his own career in real estate after an eight year stint at Carnegie Hall. So for me, like, that was always the narrative of him in my life. And I knew from a very young age I wanted to be in business. And my dad told me, You know, you can do anything you want, you just can't be in real estate. So I had to pay my own path, right? So after I graduated from college, I moved to New York City, part of finance. This is in 2004 and really like it was very God led. I think my whole career has been God led where I thought I was going to get a job in finance, you know, work for an investment bank. I was interviewing at all of the investment banks that were around and of which half of them aren't even there anymore in 2004. So I moved to New York and I ended up getting a job in venture capital. So I didn't get a job at an investment bank. I got a job in venture capital, and at the time I really didn't even know what venture was. So it was one of those things where a friend of mine, he'd helped me prep for all these events and big interviews, and then I told him, like, I have an opportunity to work at this venture capital firm. They invest in medical devices. And he was like, You have an opportunity to work in venture. You got to take it, you know, like that's the job that us bankers, he was a banker at the time. He's like, We want those jobs, so you take that job. So I had the fortune of working for this venture firm that happened to be run by three brothers. So it was a family business and they invested in orthopedic medical devices and they had an exit out of their first fund. And they started basically this incubator concept where they would acquire undervalued technology and create companies around them. And so I was one of the first employees at one of their first incubated companies, and the CEO was my boss, and he was also a partner at the venture firm. So basically I worked for him and I got exposure on the startup side and I also got exposure on the venture side. So it was kind of like a crash course in all things, you know, early stage ecosystem related.
John Coleman: Was that hard to navigate that kind of dual role between the investment and operating side?
Allison Long Pettine: You know, I was primarily on the operating side like that was my primary role and then I got opportunities to, you know, due diligence on new technologies they were looking at. And for example, there was an orthopedic surgeon who had a really great idea for a technology in medical device technology, and they gave me the opportunity to basically work with him. Filled out his patent, his IP, and then negotiate a deal and structure a deal with him. And that was, you know, maybe three or four years into my time there. So I feel like it wasn't actually challenging because my primary focus was on the operating side. And then I got these incredible opportunities to just try things out. And it was a very entrepreneurial place in that sense where, you know, you kind of either sink or swim, like they would hire a lot of entry level analysts and kind of just see what happened. Right. It was like, well, if you're going to make it, you're going to make it, you're going to figure it out. And so that was really a great training for me because I had to learn on the fly. And I'm a very experiential learner in general. But I think it also gave me confidence to say, okay, like if I can't figure something out, I will figure it out. And you know, like fast forward to today where we invested a lot of founders. I think that's one common trait that I always look for is just people who realize, like even though they don't know something, they'll figure it out or they'll surround themselves with people that they need to in order to figure it out. So anyway, back to that, you know, like I worked there for six years and then I left. That was in New York City and came back to California, got my graduate degree, and then started my own fund in 2012 to invest in early stage companies.
John Coleman: That's amazing. So, you know, as you think about that decision to do something more entrepreneurial, even working at a venture firm because it is a common path for highly educated folks, go work at an investment banker consulting firm or something more structured. Where do you think that entrepreneurial impulse or that willingness to embrace entrepreneurship came from? Is it something ingrained in you? Do you think it might have been a part of the immigrant story, for example, that your dad pioneered starting over a new life, starting a company like how do you think you got comfortable with that more entrepreneurial approach to life?
Allison Long Pettine: Yeah, I mean, I think it's very much in my DNA just for my parents and my grandparents. Right. I think being an entrepreneur, that word is very overused in this day and age. I think all of us possess entrepreneurial characteristics. Right. And it doesn't really matter if you're, quote unquote, traditional startup entrepreneur or if you are working at a large company. Right. Like we all have entrepreneurial characteristics. And so I think it's really a matter of being aware of what those are defining them and then being able to structure and utilize those characteristics in your everyday life. And I think that's part of what God calls all of us to do right, is really understand what are areas that we're strong, where areas he's calling us to take risk to be uncomfortable. Right. But for him, not for us. But yeah, I think, you know, like it was just in the way my parents thought, right? Like, they were always encouraging me and my sisters to do things that weren't comfortable. Like, I studied abroad at a very, very young age. So in high school, I studied abroad. In Montreal, I studied French, I studied Italian and Chinese at home, but I went to Montreal. My parents really encouraged that, right? Like there was no sense of fear around the unknown for even on their part of like, don't go there. It's a far place. You're only 14. And I think that kind of encouragement really led me to have the courage to do it without really thinking about it.
John Coleman: What did failure look like in those contexts? Because, you know, it's one thing to push yourself or to push your kids out. I've got kids now to do something. And then the way in which you embrace failure or handle failure as a person seeks independence, I think really shapes who they are and how they operate moving forward. What did Encounters with Failure look like for you on that journey to independence as you charted your own course?
Allison Long Pettine: Yeah, well, I think, you know, I talked about my first job adventure. When I think about a failure like that was one of the most difficult times in my life. And I think for me, I really try to reframe the word failure, right? Because there's such a judgment on failure where failure is a part of life. And I think if we see failure as a step in the direction that God ultimately wants to lead us, then, then it's less about something we did wrong. It's less about our egos. So I think for me, you know, like when I think about a traditional failure, like I graduated from UCSD, I wanted to move to New York, as I mentioned, and I interviewed for four months at literally, like when I say every investment, think it was like every single investment bank, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, UBS, in every single department, wealth management, investment, banking, research, sales, marketing. And time after time, get turned down, turn down, turn down. Right. And I'm sure a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to this, right? It's like you pinch people, you get turned off. And that was I mean, it was wearing on my soul to have again and again people just say, hey, you're not good enough. You know, like that could be seen as a failure, right? Like, I didn't get the job that I wanted. And I think what came out of that was. I was like, Look, I know that I can get a job. It's ridiculous that I'm not. I know that I can. And I just kept trying. And, you know, those four months that I interviewed, like I was at the top of my interview game, right? Like I could walk into any place. I knew exactly what to say. I knew the story like from September to December, like I had honed it on that skill. And so then when this job with the venture firm came up, I was ready for that interview. And so I think when you think about failure, it's like, well, yeah, those were a series of failures, but God was shaping me and he had a different plan for me. And, you know, I think if we can look at that with his perspective, then it takes it off of us a little bit, but also like it even changes this word failure mean. So like similar to you, I have young kids, they're four and seven and I'm trying to normalize this word failure, right? Like, what did you try? So first of all, they're like, What's failure? I'm like, That's awesome. And second of all, it's like, well, failure is just trying something that didn't work right. And so we talk about this at the dinner table, like, what did you try that didn't work today? And it could be something super small. My son was like, I kicked the ball on kickball with the wrong way. I'm like, That's great, right? Like you tried something different. You didn't know how it was going to go, didn't work out the way you thought it was going to. But the next time you try it, maybe it will. Maybe it won't. So I think it's reframing kind of this definition of failure. And I think even with the entrepreneurs that we invest in, we try and hopefully instill that message to, right? We're like, Yeah, we want their companies to succeed. But like, it's God's plan. If your company doesn't succeed, it's not because you weren't trying 1,000% right. It's because God had a different plan for you and for us as investors. If our investment company doesn't succeed, that's not on me. Like I'm doing everything I possibly can to make this thing work.
John Coleman: One You'll often look back, as you said, on these periods where you thought you were failing, where there wasn't a fit with something you were interviewing. I see this in careers all the time. I've seen it in my career. You know, when you get to our age and our stage in our career, people often look at it and say, Oh, you've achieved some success. And it must have been, you know, an upward ride. And they get discouraged about where they are. But I think both of us would say almost everyone we know who's ultimately been successful has encountered these periods where things weren't working right, regardless of what you call it. And often you look back on those periods is incredibly providential, right, that you thought something was supposed to go one way, but the failure was actually, you know, either God or life telling you that it wasn't the right fit, that you actually had a different path to pursue and it was helping to shape you to pursue that. And I love that about your story and how you're able to learn from those experiences as you weren't getting the jobs you wanted to ultimately shape, the career that you would then take. I think that's that's inspiring. And I think a lot of younger people need to hear that because they're encountering the same thing right now. And it's easy to see that as failure rather than as a redirection.
Allison Long Pettine: Right.
John Coleman: So talk to me. One of the great things about your career, and I think it's a good thing about venture investing in particular, is that there are very few venture investors who don't have some sort of operating experience who are worth their salt. You know, when you go into a lot of private equity shops, you'll find folks who were bankers and then private equity investors and never actually spent time in the company. Whereas I think venture investors will often have come from a product management role or CEO of a company, or at least worked within a startup. What do you think you learn from being an operator in startup companies or in venture backed companies that is paid dividends for you as an investor?
Allison Long Pettine: Yeah, well, I think the whole venture ecosystem has really changed a lot, you know, and I think you're spot on. I think now most people who are venture investors do have operating experience and oftentimes you'll see first time fund managers who have come from some sort of role that they've been successful in on the operating side, on the startup side. And then they'll translate that into an investment role, you know, for me. So I started Chris and Rich Partners in 2012. And honestly, one of the reasons why I started it is because in San Diego I saw that most of the people who were doing early stage investing, like first there weren't a lot of seed funds, but then I think a lot of people who were doing early stage investing were individuals who had a passion for helping people succeed. Right. And they had success in some line of business, whether it was like they were a lawyer or they ran a company for 30 years, but they didn't really have startup expertize. And so I think for me, at the very beginning, when I started Crescent Ridge, you know, I didn't have that much investment experience per say, you know, in terms of sourcing my own deals and doing diligence and all of that sort of stuff. But I did. The understanding of what it took at the very early stages to build a startup. And I think having that perspective of like all odds are against you. Right? Like day one, you have nothing. Like, you've got to basically create something out of nothing. At every step along the way, you're trying to fight for cash. You're trying to fight for talent. You're I mean, it's everything. And you're trying to figure out your customer. And so I think really understanding that and feeling that and living through that helped me immensely, just empathetically. But also when I was doing diligence on companies, right? It was like, Well, what characteristics do you look for in entrepreneurs? Because I had been there myself that I wasn't the founder, but I feel like I was there along the entire way. And, you know, I had been in positions where, you know, I crafted all of our board presentations, but I also did all of the presentations to our investors when we were running on fumes. Right. Like I remember one point in my career, we had literally like one week of cash left and I was the one responsible for putting the presentation together, pitching our investors saying like, this is why you need to invest in our company right now, because we need to make payroll. And I think going through that and really understanding like the ups and downs of it helps me be a better investor because you know, it's going to be okay or it's not going to be okay. And I think knowing that and having that perspective aligns me a lot and puts me and the founder kind of in sync as opposed to like, I'm bringing the money you need to be responsible for the money as a founder. Right? Like I'm here with you.
John Coleman: Yeah, that's great insight. So take us into Crescent Ridge Partners a bit. You've mentioned founding it in 2012. You are in San Diego, which is where you're from. I think you went to school there, which is an unusual place for an early stage. Well, maybe not that unusual today, but traditionally has not been a hub for early stage venture investing, for example. Why did you set up in San Diego and why did you set up Crescent Ridge to do.
Allison Long Pettine: Well, the San Diego is another good thing because I was in New York very happy in New York. I love New York City. You know, the energy just the it's a very special place and I have a lot of fondness for it. But I met my husband there and he got a job in San Diego in 2009. So he moved here several years before I moved here. And it was honestly just we got married. He really loved his job. I wasn't sure what I was going to do after grad school. I knew I wanted to, you know, probably do something on my own, wasn't sure what. And he ended up, like we said, let's just give San Diego a shot. And then I moved down here and I realized that there was actually a lot happening in the startup ecosystem. It was just very it was local, right? So a lot of people didn't know about it. And it was different than, you know, L.A. was just starting to emerge at that time. Silicon Valley had already had kind of an explosion, but I think San Diego had a different feel and a different vibe. And I feel like investors would come down here and they wouldn't really get it and then they would leave. And so I identified, you know, like, no, there is something here. And I think that, you know, even though there's not a lot of capital, there's a lot of talent. And any time you see talent like, you know that there's opportunity, at least that's how I see it. So I started Crescent Ridge thinking actually like, okay, I'm going to have to go to L.A., go to the Valley, go to New York just to find deals. And as I dug more into the local San Diego ecosystem, I realized, no, actually, like there's a lot here. And because there's not that much capital, there's lower valuations. There's actually a lot of opportunity for an investor if you can find the good deals. There's a lot of junky deals, too. And so I think for me it was just a matter of like I felt an affinity toward San Diego because I lived here, I wanted to integrate in the community. I saw an immense opportunity, incredible opportunity for the ecosystem to grow and flourish. And so I just started investing here and I think, you know, so one of the things that I'm passionate about also is investing in women led startups and women leaders. And I didn't actually start doing that until 2018. But I think that there's a lot of similarities between what I identified in San Diego, just in terms of, you know, kind of under estimated talent regionally. You know, it's very akin to kind of what I see in women. Right. And I think it's just there's certain patterns that investors are used to that don't exhibit the same. And that's what we see in Woman. I think that's what I saw geographically in San Diego. And so. I think for me it's always like, well, where can I identify, you know, kind of talent where others maybe are overlooking? And I think that's a differentiator because I don't have other things to lean on, right? So like, there's a lot bigger funds. There's a lot of people who maybe have a better pedigree than I do. Right. And I think for me, it's utilizing the talents God's given me in the place that He's brought me to. And how can I do his work in one of the places?
John Coleman: I love that theme between San Diego and women founders that you talked about. It's in investing in folks that others have underestimated who still have the same kind of talents and abilities as everyone else right there and undervalued thing in the marketplace, whether that's because of their gender or it's because of, you know, their geography or some other characteristic of them or ethnicity or whatever. There are all these opportunities to find people of great potential and underestimated areas, but it does rely on you being able to identify potential and to see that potential. And I think that's an underestimated part of being a venture capitalist is the people side of things, the ability to look at a founder in an early stage and see potential. How do you think about that? How do you find that you spot potential in these early stage founders that gives you confidence that they have what it takes to fight through this entrepreneurial process?
Allison Long Pettine: Well, being a venture capital investor is it's a very roundabout path, right? Like it's not linear. And I would say for a long time, I was like, I have no idea if I'm any good at this. And some days I'm like, I still don't know if I'm good at this, but I think, you know, like after I passed the 15 year mark, I was like, okay, I feel like maybe I know a little bit like I know what I'm doing. But, you know, I think the tricky thing with venture is it's about pattern recognition, right? And so pattern recognition, once you identify those patterns, it's great. But it also is very dangerous because essentially that's what biases are, right? Like biases are just a very snap judgment based on our patterns. And so I think the best venture capitalists are able to identify a pattern very quickly. Right. Like I will say, like within a few minutes, I know whether or not, you know, company will fit within our investment thesis. But I think for me, one of the things that's important in our investing work across venture and we do real estate and private equity as well is just making sure those patterns don't get stale or like we're not sticking to one pattern. And so we've developed this framework that I think helps us do that where so we have this framework called Four Dimensional Wealth. And that really came out of my own experience with investing and feeling kind of this conflict between the purpose of investing purely to create monetary wealth and like what God has put me on this earth for, right? And you know, I can get into that story later, but I think that God doesn't really care about money, and that's just my personal belief. And so if as an investor, I'm here to create money, then like, what am I doing right? Like, what am I doing to satisfy God? And so I think this four dimensional wealth framework really helps redefine wealth in a way that for me aligns my profession with what God is asking me to do, like why He's put me on this earth and because it's been inspired by God. I would say like he's at the center of it all, but it's not a Christian framework, if you know what I mean. So the four dimensions of wealth are one financial and we are an investment company. We're in the business of making money. We want to generate competitive or superior to competitive returns, and that's very important to us. But I think in addition to financial, relational, right, so like we're also creating relational capital and relational wealth and that is essentially building and deepening bonds between people. So how are the companies that we're investing in? How are we creating relational capital with the founders, but also how are they doing that in their businesses? And then third is social. So we are here on this earth to steward this earth and this planet and the people in this planet. And God really clearly states that in the Bible. And so it's not enough to just say, okay, well, we're making money and we're also deepening connections and building close relationships. Like we also really need to think about our environment, our communities, the people who have been overlooked and how are we creating businesses to actually serve those people. And then finally, it's intellectual. So intellectual capital of creating an. Electric Apple. And that's that's really maximizing the talents that God's given us know. So I think we're called every day to show up as the best versions of ourselves, because God has given us these incredible resources and talents. Right? Whether it's our brain, whether it's our money, whether it's our network, whether it's, you know, just the clothes that we have. Right? Like the fact that we can get up in the morning and walk out the door. And if we're not, you know, utilizing those to the fullest to serve others, then we're not doing him the justice and we're not serving him fully. And so I think really for me, it was almost like an accountability because there have been so many times in my life where I feel like God and God works different for all of us. Right? Like for me, God's usually like he, like, hits me over the head with a frying pan. You know, I'm doing my own thing. He taps me. I'm like, Thank God he tossed me again. You know, I feel like, hit me on the back and then he's like, okay, you're not listening to me. And so this four D well framework we call 40 well, for sure it really is to make sure that, you know, I don't need to be hit over the head with a frying pan again because I think God leads me to places. And then I'm like, thank God. Like it's a bus stop. Right? Like, thanks for dropping me off by. Yeah. And that's not what he wants. You know, he wants us to be on the bus with him the whole time. And even though he leads me somewhere, I think there's an accountability around my own actions. And there's always this constant desire to do things for myself and for my ego and my pride. And that's not pleasing to him and that's not fulfilling to him. But I think it's challenging. It's not easy, right? Like we live in a world where it's about being the best and it's about competing and it's about headlines. And so really, it's redefining what my definition of success is and aligning it with what would be pleasing to God. I think I went way off what your question was, by the way.
John Coleman: No, no, no. That's fantastic. No, I love your reading in the spiritual component of that. You know, by day, I also work at a values aligned investment firm. It's a faith aligned investment firm in our case explicitly. And I love your articulation of the four dimensional framework for wealth that you use in objection we often get is that people believe those dimensions are in conflict. So they'll say, sure, you should have, you know, in ours we even have a spiritual dimension to it explicitly, but we'll have social dimension as well. And they'll say, Well, you're an impact fund, right? Meaning concessionary, because obviously the financial return in the social mission are in conflict. Do you ever get that objection? And how do you handle that? How do you think about that tension?
Allison Long Pettine: I think from the earliest days of when impact investing came around, that was my biggest issue with Impact Investing. And you still hear it where people say, well, if you're an impact investor, you're basically sacrificing returns. Right? And I think that to me, really, it's like nails on a chalkboard, because I don't think that's the case. And I think one for us, it's framing our time horizon, right? So, yes, if you want to juice returns and you want, you know, the highest IRR in the shortest amount of time, then maybe you can achieve all four dimensions. But our definition of success is actually sustainable companies over the course of, you know, ten, 20 plus years. And if you want to build a company that lasts, it is actually essential to focus on all four dimensions. You can't not. So our investment thesis is basically by focusing on the non-financial elements of wealth, dimensions of wealth, relational, social and intellectual, you strengthen the financial case. So the financial case has to be there to begin with. But if you're investing in the other three, the financial actually becomes greater. And what happens is a lot of times people will disregard investing in the three, right? They'll say, oh, those three things are nice and they're nice to haves, but we actually really just care about financial and we're only doing those three in order to get the financial. And then it's not authentic, right? Then you're just back to one day, you're just trying all these things in order to create one wealth. And so for us, it's really, I think, this authenticity around the four dimensions. And if you really care about deepening relationships, that is going to pay off at some point, maybe not in this year, maybe not in the next six months, but it will. And we've seen this time and time again. So one of the things that we're trying to do actually is prove out this investment thesis. And so we're embarking on this journey where we're developing actually scorecards. So we're developing 40 scorecards. All our diligence is going to start the process. Any time a company goes through diligence with us, we're going to take this assessment and we're going to spit out a 40 wealth score, and that's going to help us essentially underwrite the company. And once we invest, if we decide to invest, then we'll actually do a case study with these companies and say if they opt into it right. And say, hey, if you want to build 40 wealth, let's see if what we believe actually holds true. We've got some companies in our portfolio anecdotally that we can point to, and we're going to do some retrospective case studies as well. But I think this is where, you know, having data to back it up is really helpful. Part of it is for us, I think, just to say like, okay, is what we're saying actually true? But I think also part of it is so that other people who aren't necessarily early adopters are interested in pursuing this type of investing. And I think the 40 wealth, I mean, a lot of people have something similar. So it's not proprietary to us. I think for us it just helps us give us a common language because I think there's so many people who want to do the right thing, but it's so abstract. What does it mean to do the right thing? And the four DS can look different for every founder, every investor. But at least we have some sort of commonality to say like, okay, well, we're pursuing 40. Well.
John Coleman: Yeah, I love that. And we don't have the 40 framework ourselves, but we are similarly trying to prove out a framework that says, look, we actually think the incorporation of values along the lines that you're identifying not only aren't in conflict with financial return, but like you said, they're essential to building great long term companies. And there's especially in the private equity side. And I want to get to how you diversified your investing a bit before we we kind of circle back to the spiritual side, especially in the private equity side. You're always going to find firms that are able to juice returns through excessive amounts of risk or through transactional behavior. Right. But it doesn't create long term sustainable companies, typically. And it introduces a lot of risk to the equation where in both the venture and private equity worlds and likely in the real estate world or even the public equity world, if you have this more forward approach to to a company, you're building a culture and a foundation for that company that's sustainable long term and ultimately sets up a greater competitive advantage. Right. Which can reinforce the financial return that you're getting over time. And so I'd love to see the results as you start to get those back. We're all, I think, engaged in our own little exercises, trying to make sure we quantify that. But I think, well.
Allison Long Pettine: Maybe there's even a collaboration that I'm I think my mind always goes to like, how can we help each other? Because I guess also part of it is, you know, we're doing this for God. Like, I think for us it's not I would love for several people to work on something together. Right. Because I think it's just the more we are able to prove this out, I think the more we do his work. Right. You know, also part of it is just we identified on the financial side that financial metrics often are lagging indicators. Right. So, yes, I think what would be fascinating and for you as a who we were in private equity because you have that you as you venture and private equity but I think on the private equity side you have more data right venture so early and so volatile but private equity like you've got a lot of data and I think you can potentially look back and see like okay the years that were really good. Like those are actually a result of investment in the other three dimensions, right? And then like one of the things we talked about is if you could look at like stock market data and see companies like a blockbuster, right? Yeah. Why did that happen to Blockbuster? Like they were probably low on a few of the other dimensions of wealth. Right. And because they didn't invest and you could argue maybe intellectual, maybe relational, right? Like because of that, they ended up going out of business. But I think there's ways to kind of put all of this stuff together. But I think it's also a matter of perspective. Like you can't like to your point, you can never prove to someone that's looking to juice their returns over a three year period that 40 wealth is going to work. It's not going to work.
John Coleman: Actually, it won't work. Not net one.
Allison Long Pettine: Fan. Exactly. So I think it depends on if you're talking about apples and you're saying like, try this orange, it's delicious. It's like you're just speaking a different language. So I think it's a matter of also really understanding like what's our definition of success over the long term? Over the short term, right? Like what are you aiming for?
John Coleman: Well, so I want to touch on one topic and then maybe circle back. We always ask everybody at the end what you're learning from scripture right now and why that's important. I'd love to talk to you about a million other things, including digging into the idea about female founders and female venture capitalists and getting deeper. So maybe we'll have to get you back on some time. But my impression is now you have expanded your remit again. You've got a great passion for founders, but you're also doing private equity and real estate investing now? I think so. Your dad told you never to do real estate investing and you actually are touching on that now. And if I understood correctly, you're actually working with your father to some extent now on some of that as well. Talk to us about that transition. And is it different at all to be working with a family member and how you navigate that as an investor?
Allison Long Pettine: Well, I work with my dad. I also work with my husband, who technically is the one on the real estate side. So okay, so maybe following that rule. But no, my dad and I have come full circle now. We work together. And then I also work with my sister who runs our family foundation. So now I work with my whole family basically. And her brother in law runs the solar finance company, which we're invested in. So yeah, I'm deep in it. But, you know, I think part of it is, you know, that's the position that God has put me in and he's allowed me to. And it's been incredibly rewarding. I mean, there's challenges for sure, but I think that I feel honored to kind of. Serve my family and be in this position where we all share the desire to serve God, right? And we all have the same perspective around capital and our talents and our resources, which is like we're stewards. And that's really unique, I think. I think a lot of people who are investors don't have that luxury. And so I'm just grateful that I'm able to do what I do in the context of my faith, because, you know, I have people who are aligned with me in that. And I think, you know, you guys probably feel the same. It's all runs. And I think it's a gift that God has given me.
John Coleman: Yeah, I totally agree. And especially the more the diverse, the more diverse the environment. I think the more important a shared sense of mission or values. Right. Because you need things that hang together or the greater the potential for interpersonal conflict, the more that shared mission matters. And that's so interesting in the context of a family dynamic, too, which is even more complicated than than your typical organization in a lot of ways, but that that can hang true for you all and that you're able to work so smoothly with that similar perspective on wealth and a similar perspective on the reasons you're investing, not just what you're investing in.
Allison Long Pettine: Yeah, I always say like if I can deal with these interpersonal dynamics in my family and it's a great training ground for other people, it's like the most sensitive first, you know, relationship.
John Coleman: And you can't get rid of them with your family. You know what.
Allison Long Pettine: I really mean? I know. Okay.
John Coleman: So talk to us. The last thing maybe to touch on, you've been very open about your own spiritual walk. We love to conclude just with what you're maybe studying in Scripture now or something. You're learning that you'd love to share with everyone else.
Allison Long Pettine: Yeah. So I feel like God always gives me themes for the year, right? So one big theme that I was working on a few years ago was surrender. So I think for me this year it's identity. And a lot of my life I've struggled with my own identity around like ego pride, not being good enough inadequacy. And this year really just God has placed on my heart this desire for a sense of peace in knowing like my identity is actually found in being a child of peace. Wow. And that's a very powerful thing. It's like I'm able to receive that, but I think sometimes it's hard to receive that, you know? So I've been trying to integrate that into, you know, all aspects of my life as a mom, as a businesswoman, as a wife, right? Like as whatever else we do in our community. And I think that it's also allowed me to experience God's grace, and it's been very, very profound. So continuing to listen to him, make sure my intentions align with his intentions and redefine and reshape my view of myself and the world in his life.
John Coleman: When it's ever finished. She always heard working through that. Like you said, just reshaping his life goes on. So that's a great word, Alison. This was a fantastic discussion, really excited about what you're doing in the investing world. I excited to see the results of your data on the 4D approach and hopefully we'll get to have you back some time. Thanks so much for joining today.
Allison Long Pettine: Thank you for having me. Sounds like we've got a lot more to talk about.