Episode 101 - HOPE for Ukraine with Peter Greer
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HOPE International was founded in Ukraine 25 years ago. Since then, they’ve invested in the dreams of thousands of Ukrainian entrepreneurs and farmers. They’ve seen families work their way out of poverty and lives changed by the Gospel. HOPE International President and CEO, Peter Greer, joins us today to invite the global community of Faith Driven Entrepreneurs and Investors to take action in a real, meaningful, and lasting way.
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific investment advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to a special edition of the Faith Driven Investor podcast today we've got a special guest great friend of mine, Peter Career with us from Hope International and Peter. As so many of you will know, Rise, an incredible organization called Hope International, which focuses on Christ centered economic development, savings plans, savings groups, rather microfinance smear loans and assistance. And he does that and just pretty much all over the world and many, many countries that we'll hear about. But one of those countries is particularly special to him and to the staff of Hope International, and that is the Ukraine. It's in fact where Hope got started just about 25 years ago. He has 47 employees that are on the ground. He's been coordinating a work with them to make sure they and their families are set, and he is in a great spot to give us a sense as to what's going on in the ground. Hopefully not to put too much pressure on my great friend, but hopefully will give us a good flyover and help us to understand a bit more about what's going on. There may maybe some of the history and some of the ethnicity and in some of what's happened over the course of the last week in a way that you will be able to understand the conflict and understand what's going on through the lives of those he knows on the ground in a way that would be different than to CNN or BBC. But hopefully you will leave our time together with a sense of what God is doing in the world, how he might call you into it. And at the very least, a way to pray differently about Ukraine in this crisis. Peter, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Henry. So good to be with you.
Henry Kaestner: Awesome, have you? So we're going to put this in the show notes, but I listen to a video presentation that you gave and event for the Denver Institute of Faith and Work last Tuesday or Wednesday, shortly after the conflict started. You know, it's beautiful. It, it's just awesome. And so I'm really grateful for you to be able to share some of that, some of the lessons of hope amidst a very tragic backdrop. But before we get into some of the things that you shared with that audience, give us, give us a sit rep. Tell us what's going on today, please.
Peter Greer: Yeah, thanks, Henry. And I mean, the situation continues to rapidly change and we are continuing to pray for peace that this invasion would be over. But every day we're in contact with the staff in Ukraine. As you said, Henry, 47, staff around the country, not all of them have been able to get to the West. Some are still very much in conflict zones, very close to the fighting. And I mean, you when you love someone, when they go through pain, you feel just a little bit of it to you. And I think that's really just for the entire organization right now, all of the other countries feeling just a little bit of that, of that pain that our friends are experiencing right now. So in terms of what's happening, there continues to be a mass exodus of individuals who are able to get out of Ukraine, estimated the right now 1.5 million people have evacuated. We know that males ages 18 to 60 are not able to exit, so there's still a lot that are in country, but a lot of movement. I am thankful that the global business community is continuing to put pressure on Russia and Henry to think about the impact of business and this story that continues to unfold about a growing number of companies that are saying this is not OK and trying to figure out ways to make sure that the nation of Russia understands a little bit so really encouraged actually by what MasterCard, Visa, American Express are doing. Apple and a number of different companies that are saying we are going to suspend work in Russia as a way of trying to increase pressure on Vladimir Putin for this invasion to end. And in the midst of all of it, just an incredible show of solidarity and support among Ukrainians. The spirit of unity in Ukraine is so strong, and I have just the highest respect for our brothers and sisters right there that are facing incredible challenge and yet doing it with a spirit of unity that you have the world is seeing. So they're continuing to pray for the peace talks, continuing to pray for peace and for all of us trying to figure out what does it look like to pray and to act in ways that very quickly, as soon as possible, this conflict will be over.
Henry Kaestner: Touch us a bit about the unity that you just mentioned. There are hope and there's there's a map. Hopefully we'll have in the show notes to that shows where hope employees are and where there is conflict and their hope employees on the traditional Russian speaking side on the Far East and the Ukraine, and then also in the Ukrainian speaking side. Talk to us about this unity. One of the things that lots of us have been a little bit of a crash course on over the last two or three weeks is this kind of history of Ukraine, some different groups. And yet it's not like all the Russian speakers are just like, can't wait to be joined with the motherland, right? It seems quite the opposite.
Peter Greer: I think so. Within any country and. Any time we even have a conversation like this, it is real difficult to get to the overall, what is true in one region might be a little bit different for another region. And there certainly is nuance in the Donbass region. There certainly is history, right? But I think for me, the peace that has been a lesson for the world is what Zelensky has done and leading in a way of really coming back to that identity, coming back to who we are as a free nation, as Ukraine and watching the way that this truly has brought the nation together. And not just that, but I even think about my colleagues here at Hope International. The number of us you can't see on video, but there's a lot of blue and yellow that is being worn on that. And I think for you and me, Henry as followers of Jesus, a backdrop of pain and war and difficulty. This has always been a moment when the church shows up. The way the global church has showed up has been absolutely amazing and inspiring right now. So we have partners in Romania and Moldova and immediately for them to reach out to their colleagues in Ukraine and say if anyone needs to get out of the country, family members, we are here. We will meet you at the border. We will make sure you are in a safe spot and there is nothing we would not do for you. And that's what we're seeing from the Romanian church. That's what we're seeing from the Moldovan church. That's what we're seeing as individuals come in. And then even for organizations, Henry, just in the last several days, compassion international reaching out to their whole, you know, kind of support and saying Our friends hope international. They are in Ukraine. They've been in Ukraine for 25 years. They're going to be there. And not just that and then us trying to point people to other organizations that are doing great relief work and celebrating the work of water mission. And there's so many and I just love the way that this truly is bringing together the global church as it should. A moment of crisis should bring the church together and in a way that is so inspiring where it is not about organizational logos. This is about the global collective body saying, What can we do to make a difference for our brothers and sisters that are experiencing real suffering right now? So it has been a beautiful picture of unity at a national level for Ukraine. But I think it's also been a beautiful picture of unity for the global church right now to
Henry Kaestner: tell us a bit about the size and scope of your ministry. I know you've got 47 employees. You were founded in the Ukraine. I actually want to get to their founding story a little bit because I know that we've had you on the podcast before, but I don't know that we've gotten into that as much because now it's so relevant. But who do those forty seven employees serve? And also tell us a bit about what we're hearing on the ground from some of those hope clients.
Peter Greer: And the first thing that comes to mind, Henry, is just there is there is a fatigue that is very real. You hear it, you see it. You cannot live in a situation of that type of stress and concern for your kids, for your family members and it not take a toll. And now we are not on day one or two or three. This is long term stress and it is it is taking a toll on our friends. So I think that's the reality of war, conflict, fear that impacts every part. You are not sleeping, unable to to eat. When you are focused on survival, you think about those families that are living in the subway. And if you've been in a Ukrainian subway mean built as bomb shelters, they are so incredibly deep. And that's where families are living right now again. And it's not short term now. It is going to be measured in weeks, not days of how long families are going to be living in that type of stressful situation. So clients, staff, the broader country is experiencing a level of trauma right now that is very real, very, very, very real. And when I think about the impact on the clients, we always know that it is the most vulnerable that are impacted the most severely. So, yeah, I mean, focusing on where do we get food focused on what is the safest place and and we can't get there. The cities are shut off. As you said, 70 percent of our work is in the east in areas that now were under Russian control or still at the very forefront of the fighting. And if you saw the recent headlines of the nuclear power plant in Russia, that is the founding city of Hope, international and staff and lots of clients that are in that area. So I think that to me is just the reality of chronic fear and stress and the impact that that has on on an individual and at the same time, courage and compassion. We are seeing a response that is so unbelievably inspiring of people that are willing to sacrifice. Or someone else? Yeah, so there's so much more that could be, said Henry, but that's yeah, I think that's
Henry Kaestner: give us a quick overview of the history, but then talk to us and bring that into the services and how a business in Ukraine will interact with you and the type of financial services that you provide. I think it's important for us as an audience of investors to understand what does it look like to invest in businesses in a place like the Ukraine? And it may be too early for us to talk to you about, well, what is it look like to invest in businesses in Ukraine immediately after this? It's probably too early. And yet you probably have a sense of what those businesses do and the services you've offered. And and presumably to the extent that there are some loans, there's going to be some defaults. But just, yeah, just a bit history right through the services you offer. Yeah.
Peter Greer: Well, Henry, it's not too early to talk about what is coming because we've been through this before in Ukraine. If you actually look at what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union, you look at what happened in the early 90s and you saw all of the challenge. And so Hope International came in with relief at the time, not Hope International, but the church that was involved in the founding of Hope International came in with relief because in a crisis, that's what is needed and so provided food for those that were insecure, provided housing, started rebuilding churches and really seeing this opportunity to love. But relief is always best when it is targeted and it is time bound. And there was a moment that really was the turning point when Pastor Petrenko in Ukraine said to these individuals. And Jeff Wright, hopes founder. We sure appreciate all the aid that you've been providing, but isn't there a way you can help us help ourselves? Isn't there a way we can no longer become dependent on your charity and we can have the gift of work we can provide for our families? And that was the moment that Hope International was born. And really shifting from charity to then development. And so in a very similar way, that's what we're going to experience. There's going to be a time of outpouring of charity that is good and needed and appropriate. And then I believe very quickly it's going to be an opportunity to rebuild the enterprises, the small businesses, the micro entrepreneurs. It's going to be a time to help them get back to work and rebuilding their nation. And so that was the founding story. That is what we continue to do, and that is what we are going to do. Been there for 25 years and we're going to be there for the next 25 years, helping entrepreneurs rebuild. Initially, it was about the small scale markets, but then really got into agriculture. 60 percent of our work is investing in agriculture and greenhouses and helping with food production in Ukraine. And that is what we're going to continue to do on that.
Henry Kaestner: Tell us how you do that. Do you compete against the banks in the Ukraine? I know enough about hope to know that you have programs and services on top of the lending, but give us an overview Aminu menu, if you will, of what you do when you're working with one of these agricultural entrepreneurs, one of these farmers. And by the way, when you talk about insecurity, you're talking about, people are just her hungry. And as an aside, this weekend, my family and I watched the movie The Pianist. This was an Oscar winning movie from maybe 30 years ago. Roman Polanski movie. Adrien Brody, I think won Best Actor for it. Incredible. And it did such a great job of talking about a period of time, which is interesting to watch right now. But you came away from that and just realized that very quickly somebody can become food insecure when all of a sudden the shops go and you just you're hungry. And that becomes that was, you know, for two hours. Effectively, you watch Adrien Brody going around and trying to find food. You're working with these farmers. What does it look like to be able to serve them as they look to to feed this country?
Peter Greer: Yeah. Well, unfortunately, the timing of this, as at a time of individuals should be planting right now. There should be a time where there's a whole lot of work being done to get ready. So I do worry if if there is an inability to at this stage, be planting the seeds and plowing the ground. I do think there's going to be a crisis in the months to come on that as well. So what does it look like? It looks like the agricultural inputs are being matched with the hardworking entrepreneurs, hardworking farmers and then helping them to feed their families and feed their nation. So on a practical level, it's inputs. It's access to capital so that individuals can get what they need to grow up a whole variety. But for us, a huge, huge emphasis has been in greenhouses that turns it from just one growing season a year to multiple growing seasons a year. So doing a lot with helping individuals have access to greenhouses as well.
Henry Kaestner: Tell us about that. Their lawns ever equity deals. How do you source those deals?
Peter Greer: Yeah. So we keep it real simple. We do all with loans, so we do not take equity in the different ventures, but started with. Real small loans, you know, 50, $100, 200, $500. And then as we've grown now, it's in the thousands of dollars of investments. And so, yeah, it's not by any means our largest country of operation, but it has been, yeah, long term commitment to walking with these entrepreneurs. And I guess Henry, again, my mind, I feel like I'm not able to really articulate this real well right now. It has been a tough, tough season because as we are with our clients and with our staff, there is this sense of a feeling like there's not a whole lot we can do right now and we will be there when the rebuilding begins. We know that. And right now, safety and security of staff calling all of our clients and saying immediate grace periods. We know there's going to be write offs. We know there's going to be loan forgiveness. And I think that's an opportunity to show the different of our model and methodology. If you had your store ransacked by an invading army, we are going to help you not through the normal mechanisms, but we're going to help you get back in business through an outpouring of compassion and generosity. And again, just checking in with clients praying for them. And yeah, it's real hard when you think about the work that we do in light of an invasion and just so desperately wanting this to be over so that that rebuilding time can come, but it's not there yet. This is not a time to be planning fields yet. This is not a time yet to be restocking shelves for the micro-entrepreneurs. And so it just is this huge piece of just picking up the phone call and clients making sure staff know we're with them and doing everything possible that they would just simply know we are here, that we see. We know we care. And in many ways, just getting ready for as soon as we can. There's a whole lot of excitement and anticipation the day that there is peace. The rebuilding will begin. And yeah, that's really what we are actively planning and preparing for.
Henry Kaestner: One of the key differences in your model versus those of other models that invest in developing markets is that you have this faith driven staff and a couple of things. It just occurred to me. Number one, I see the the fatigue in you knowing that this is something you've been wrestling with and looking at. And the second one is, I'm just so glad that you're in the market in the theater, if you will, loving all people because it would seem to me that when you have forty seven people able to call business owners that they know that are all in all, 47 of these are driven by their Christian faith. There's an opportunity to love on people that might be different. It's going to be different. It's got to be radically different than when times are great and hope is just another loan. You know, they could get one from a bank or someplace else. And yeah, the hope international pray for the employer will pray for them. But and maybe that resonates a bit. But this would seem to be this time that while the faith aspect of your model and of your workers on the ground really, really matters. Am I getting that right?
Peter Greer: Yeah, you're absolutely getting right. We saw that in the founding years of Hope International. We saw that in the invasion in 2014, and we are seeing it right now and I couldn't agree more. Henry, when your world is shaken, when what you have been accumulating, what you've been saving and investing, when that is taken away, the question is what do you have? And for those of us that are followers of Jesus, we believe you can take our businesses. We believe that there are challenges that we were experience. And in the midst of that, there is a hope that is unshakable because it is not dependent on our circumstance, but on the character of Christ. And if the tomb is empty, that has relevance for us today. And so, yeah, we have seen we have definitely seen in many cases working with clients for years and years and years. And then it's in a moment of crisis that the door opens to conversations about what really matters. Is there a hope in the midst of everything falling apart? And we would say, yes, there is on that. So yeah, I anticipate I believe this. We've already experienced it and I believe we're going to experience it in the months to come. If the church can mobilize and if the church can be on the forefront of caring, of responding and rebuilding. I believe there will be incredible opportunities for the gospel to advance in Ukraine right now.
Henry Kaestner: Speaking on Hope a bit, I was really impacted by your sharing about one of the prophets talking about hope amidst conflict and challenge. Tell us a bit about that as very, very relevant for what's going on right now, but also has to do with a work that God has been doing on your heart for a while. And I think you've got a book coming out about this, but tell us about this hope that comes. Out of the profits that's made such an impact.
Peter Greer: Henry, this has been an absolute gift for Christmas and I to work on really this question initially of how do some of our friends keep going for decade after decade when they have every right to be disappointed, disillusioned, cynical and give up? And they haven't like what is it? And you know this we have these friends and they just they just have this, as Eugene Peterson says, this long obedience in the same direction and what is it that sustains that? And so thinking about Zimbabwe, why are they still serving your our friends in Haiti? What or thinking about all of our friends that have just had this long term faithful obedience? And we started doing a research project really of saying, what is it that grounds their long term service when there are incredible challenges? And the theme that they kept bringing up again and again was this idea of a grounded and rooted hope, and they kept bringing up again and again this Old Testament prophet that I could quote one verse from. I could quote Jeremiah to 911 for. I know the plans that I have for you declared the Lord's plans to prosper. You give you hope in future not to harm you, and I could quote that, but I had no idea of the full scale and scope when those words were written down by Jeremiah. And you look at Jeremiah and it was in the midst of an invasion from an occupying force that destroyed his homeland. It was in the midst of him having incredible personal challenge, death threats and assault and slander and all of these challenge. And yet sometimes he's known as the Weeping Prophet. I think that's the wrong description. He's the persevering prophet. He's the one who had this long obedience in the same direction. And in Jeremiah, 17, it really points to this idea of what sustains his service and how did he keep going. And. And I think what he wrote down, what got the message that God gave through the prophet Jeremiah has so much relevance for all of us today. And it basically said, You know what? You try to do it on your own, your strength. So that is not going to be when the drought comes, you are going to break off and blow away only if you have a hope that is in the character of who God is. That is the only way that you can have green leaves and drought conditions. And as we listen to our global friends, that is what they kept, pointing the example of Jeremiah faithfulness that is independent of circumstance and a hope that is rooted in God's character. And instead of like turning inward instead of focusing on all of our disillusionment or all of our pain or all of our disappointment, it simply is looking up and this wonderful promise that Jesus gave. So in this world, you will have trouble like we were told this is going to be hard. And any North American expectation that following Jesus is easy is an unbiblical expectation. This is supposed to be hard. This is supposed to be difficult. But what does Jesus say? Says, but take heart. I have overcome the world, and I think that's what our friends in Ukraine know right now. This is ridiculously painful and hard to watch what is happening, but it is possible to experience the presence of Christ in the midst of it. And for our brothers and sisters in other contexts around the world that are also experiencing incredible challenge, they expected that this was going to be hard and they're not trying to do it in their own strength, but they have found a way of connecting to the author of Life. The reason we have hope they have found a way that their faith is what grounds them, and they know that there is a different end to this story than the current circumstance.
Henry Kaestner: What an incredible, encouraging note to end on. We're now linked to this in the show notes, but I just want to encourage listeners right now, as you wanted to know more about the work that I hope international does and then their take on what's going on in the ground to include links on how to give and get involved with other ministries. One of my big takeaways from Peter is just the way that the global church is responding. And I love your open headed nature with the way that you're calling attention to what Samaritan's Purse is doing, A.W. and Water Mission and others. I really encourage you to check out the Hope International website and for us as listeners, as faith driven investors to be on our knees praying about how God might have us allocate our capital in light of what's going on and understanding that there is an opportunity for us as Faith Driven Investor is to have this long obedience in the same direction and try to understand how God might have us deploy capital for us to think about doing that. In Ukraine, there are a couple of dozen or so other countries that hope works in and as well. But right now, I think that we are indeed looking at some troubles which are in Eastern Europe, so let's hope that God. Lines as faithful as we think and pray about these things. Peter, I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for our friendship. I'm grateful for your leadership. I'm so fired up about the new book that's coming out so I can understand more about this pattern that you see. And I love that I love this concept of who can you look at that are really the heroes out there on the ground doing things in a way that after two or three months, we're like, Gosh, this work is just too hard. We just we've got to quit. And you knowing that there are men and women motivated by their Christian faith out there that are sticking to it? What does that look like? They grit through a biblical worldview, and so thank you for that. And let me just pray for you and and hope Heavenly Father. We lift up Peter and his leadership, and I thank you for the fact that he's had a faithful obedience in the same direction for 17 18 years now as a CEO of Hope International and the way that he's been such a light for me and so many others, I thank you for the work of hope on the ground and a few dozen countries in Africa and Latin America and Asia. Just it's amazing to see what they've done, what you've done through them. Dear Lord. Specifically, though, today we pray for those 47 families. We pray for the 47 families that you will bring them safety and security. And yet, Lord, that you'd also allow them to be able to continue to serve those clients. We pray for the clients, we pray for these businesses that we pray for the conversations that hope employees will have with these businesses and checking in and praying with them. Dear Lord, we pray for the safety of your church in the Ukraine, the men and women that are running these businesses that are trying to keep the businesses afloat, trying to love their families while trying to even just find food. Some of these clients might be living in subway stations right now, Lord, and I think that just my impatience when I have to sit in a subway station for ten minutes when I'm waiting for a train, as I did last week in New York, and think that they're there for days or maybe even weeks or longer. Dear Lord, we just pray for the brokenness of this world. And yet we also understand that you have told us that there will be troubles in this world. Find his faithful and obedient and worthy of those troubles because you have indeed overcome the world. Help us know what that looks like. Dear Lord, forgive me for the fact that I too often do not have that perspective and I coast too often. Forgive me for that. Allow me to rise to the occasion. Allow these listeners to do the same in Jesus name. Amen. Amen, thank you, Henry. Bless you, brother. Really good to see you. Do I get to?