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Community. It’s one of the core tenets of the Faith Driven movement. If you’ve been listening for a while, we hope you’ve heard stories from around the world that have opened up your eyes to see that FDEs are everywhere, and they’re faithfully pursuing God’s will right where they are. 

Today, we’re talking with Sue Alice Sauthoff who has recently joined the FDE/FDI team as our Community Manager. She’s going to share all the new initiatives intended to foster community among FDEs all around the world. 

We’re so excited she’s on the team, and we think after listening to this podcast, you will be too…

Episode Transcript

Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I think that to bring these entrepreneurs together who often do feel lonely or isolated in their role, not only because of what they do, but because of the great weight of the responsibility that they hold to bring them together with other people, to realize that they’re not alone, that there are other people that understand the situations they’re in and what they’re facing. It brings power. And that’s biblical, right. Jesus said the world will know us by our love for one another. And so if we’re able to show each other love and we’re not competitors, but we are brothers and sisters in Christ coming together, then the world is going to see that love and they’re going to ask questions and they’re going to see that there’s hope that we have. That’s really unique. And so not only is it an encouragement to us as believers to be in a community like that, but it also is shining a light into our world. William Rusty, great to see you both.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back here. Amazing to be here. So today’s really good topic. I think that one of the things a quote that I’ve been kind of just camping out on for a while now is C.S. Lewis. This is a quote attributed to C.S. Lewis. So we’re just going to say that it is indeed him, which is something along the lines of friends are when you come across somebody who says, oh, wait, I thought I was the only person that blank, you know, played Parcheesi in the pool or whatever the case is. Right. Fill in the blanks. And there’s something about the concept of being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur that is inherently lonely. And when you’re an entrepreneur and or business owner were out there and we’re trying to make it happen. Right. We’re trying to make it happen. We’re trying to go ahead and we’re trying to hire employees. We’re trying to keep employees. We’re trying to get customers in. We’re trying to get funding. And then actually, even when we come home, our spouses, you know, how is work? And, you know, we kind of almost are even selling them because they thought we should have kept that great job that we had at IBM or fill in the blanks. And so there’s something about being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur that is pretty lonely, I think. And I think that our group, the folks that we minister to in our ministered by Faith driven entrepreneurs tend to resonate with that. It’s hard to find really good community you get in church, right. And people are saying, I know they’re coming from all sorts of different walks of life, but you never really feel like your pastor gets you or the person in your small group get you. You guys ever feel that way when you’re in small group?

Rusty Rueff: Totally. Absolutely, totally. I mean, it’s like you’re in an alternate reality sometimes, right? You’re doing your thing and you’ve got these pressures of these stresses on you. But somebody else who’s outside of this sphere of being either an entrepreneur or outside of the sphere of your industry sector, you know, it’s like you should be able to relate, but it’s not relatable. And so you’re on your own. You’re on your own.

William Norvell: And then I find actually the most helpful people in that situation are the people with a lot of wisdom that say, you know, actually, I can’t relate to that. But here’s some thoughts on maybe something else you’re going through. But, you know, then it can get really dicey.

My point is, though, when people try to come in and they really don’t understand what’s going on at all and they try to offer advice and wisdom and it can be misguided and be frustrating and kind of take people down the wrong path at some level, too.

Rusty Rueff: Yeah, well, you would know this, Henry, you know, running sovereign’s capital, you know you know how lonely the journey is because we’ve seen a lot of venture capitalists now who won’t or don’t want to invest in a social entrepreneur. Right. They want to see a co-founder. They want to know that there’s some support system, even if it’s just two of you.

Henry Kaestner: So it’s a known phenomena where two or more together, which doesn’t mean the guy’s not with you as a sole proprietor is an entrepreneur. Right. We’re talking to somebody on a podcast episode. Recently, I was talking about developing a new technology informed by some twenty three. Right. Even though we go through the shadow of death, you’re with me. And that connotes almost kind of I’m alone, but you’re with me. And to be clear, you don’t need to have a partner. We think that at the ministry that it surely is preferable if you can find that person that’s yoked with you and pray with you and cry with you and celebrate with you and all that. But we have tried to get a little bit more intentional about community in the ministry. And we’ve got a guest today that is helping us to lead that initiative. And we have to Saathoff on the podcast with us. And she’s come in as the director of community with what we do, a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. And she’s going explain what does that look like and what does it look like and what could it look like but doesn’t look like it now, et cetera. But with her, as with anybody else that we have on the show, Swails, who are you? Where do you come from? What’s your background to the show?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Thanks. I’m glad to be here. Yeah, well, first and foremost, I am a wife and a mom. My husband Matt and I have been married for 18 years and we have two girls. Breckon is in seventh grade and Browning is in third. So it’s a fun household with lots of energy all the time. And, you know, professionally, I would have to say that everything kind of started at age 14 when I felt like God really gave this clear call for me to go into missions. And I had just come back from a mission trip to Mexico, grew up in Texas. So we just got across the border for a week. And at the time, my fourteen year old self that you know what that is going to mean? I’m going to live in a hut somewhere the rest of my life. And funny how God takes you on a very different journey than what you imagine as a 14 year old. And I thank him for that. So I went to Baylor University and I graduated with a Spanish degree, English and political science miners. I have no idea what I thought I was going to do, but I had a really smart person tell me. If I learned how to think, then I could do anything. And so I can think in two languages and so can Rusty. I’ve heard that about Rusty I knew.

Rusty Rueff: I mean, I knew you were going to do it. I just wanted to see how long it was going to take. One time I try a little Spanish on another episode of the podcast.

And it’s going to stay with me forever, forever. So, all right, I’ll take that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I’ll take it. Yeah. So when I left college, I got married and my husband was getting his masters at Vanderbilt and I got a job teaching Spanish and coaching soccer for several years. And that led into going into the education sector. I worked with a corporation helping them liaise with the Department of Education in Mexico, providing educational programing for offenders who were and in correctional facilities and would be released whatever their home country was afterwards. And so we were providing education for them somehow. That then led me to working with Samaritan’s Purse and I was with them for about five years, developing volunteer networks and growing volunteer teams across the United States, equipping them for the work that God had called them to do. So it’s been a really strange journey. But what has been the constant is that God has shown me that through all of this, this is missions that the work that I’ve been a part of has been taking the gospel and taking the name of Jesus to parts of the earth I didn’t know existed here in the States and literally to other parts of the globe.

And he’s done that in a really unique ways that I could not have thought out myself by any means and so grateful for the journey God has brought me on that now has led me to Faith Driven Entrepreneur.

Henry Kaestner: Indeed, indeed. You are also bobblehead doll fan. What does that mean?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I have a really special bobblehead doll. I’m a huge women’s basketball fan, especially college basketball. And Baylor coach Kim Mulkey is a bit of a hero of mine. And so Kim sits on my desk beside me with her three national championship trophies to remind me that when I’m tired or when I’m feeling discouraged, I can keep going, I can do it and I can spot all. Had to be a Baylor basketball fan. It is a great year to be a Baylor basketball fan.

William Norvell: So I have a much less heroic bobblehead story. If this was video, you could see this. This probably looks like me because it is. And I have always lamented to my wife, better looking than you. Thanks, Bud. I appreciate that.

Oh, no, it’s because everything looks good. It looks good.

I’ve always lamented to my wife I love bobbleheads and I’ve always just kind of said off the cuff, like, man, I really want my own bobblehead one day and one year for Christmas. This little guy was born.

Henry Kaestner: I was there like the limited release. I mean, can our listeners get them?

William Norvell: You know, there was a limited release of one. But yes, I mean, I’m happy to put these on the site.

Rusty Rueff: Yeah. Yeah, it totally it totally explains one thing about you. That’s why you’re constantly moving your head like that all the time. I never understood why you kind of bob your head around like that, but there you go. It’s definitely not the caffeine and ADT.

Henry Kaestner: So tell us about why you’ve joined our team.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah, well, I have come on this team as the community manager to really help grow the community of entrepreneurs together globally and to expand that and see that multiply. I think that to bring these entrepreneurs together who often do feel lonely or isolated in their role, not only because of what they do, but because of the great weight of the responsibility that they hold to bring them together with other people, to realize that they’re not alone, that there are other people that understand the situations that are and and what they’re facing. It brings power. And that’s biblical. Right. Jesus said the world will know us by our love for one another. And so if we’re able to show each other love and we’re not competitors, but we are brothers and sisters in Christ coming together, then the world is going to see that love and they’re going to ask questions and they’re going to see that there’s hope that we have. That’s really unique. And so not only is it an encouragement to us as believers to be in a community like that, but it also is shining light into our world.

Henry Kaestner: It tell us a bit about how you see that coming together and kind of practical. So you’ve been on board for a month and a half or so now. And right now you’re in the middle of this initiative we’re doing together the Right Now Media Faith Driven Entrepreneur Partnership video series, eight weeks. We’ve got entrepreneurs from all around the world that get together via a video resume and we’re able to go through this curriculum together with this small video vignettes done in our partnership with Faith and Company, which are so, so good, really just very, very good. High production quality, incredible stories of Faith driven entrepreneurs, followed by teaching by JD Grear. But the magic of it really is this interaction between 12 to 15 entrepreneurs from all around the world coming together and community. And so you’re starting to get a sense of that as you see that, aside from doing more of that. And we’ve got more classes that are starting in March and maybe every month going forward because we’re starting to get some momentum and a lot of the people have gone through it. First Time said, I want to teach it to my own local community. But aside from that. Maybe you can talk about that one particular initiative. What does your vision look like in terms of building community over the course of the next couple of years?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I think it would be amazing to see it really grow on a global scale, to see community what starts with one, grow to more and more in local communities, whether it’s Johannesburg or Atlanta or Dallas or Jakarta all over that. We’re able to start with the one person, the one person that comes to the group that is activated to really dig deep into what they’re doing, integrating their faith and work together and then passing that on to the next person. And that one person then becomes another group of 15 in their area. And those 15 people are activated. And that grows into more and more communities growing together as believers, but also then as entrepreneurs taking their God given skills and abilities, uniting those together or encouraging them in their individual pursuits to do greater things than they thought they could before activated by that faith that they shared together.

Rusty Rueff: So some people have an experience, some do with small groups, very positive in some places. Some people don’t even know what a small group is. So let’s back all the way up. What’s your definition of the FDE small group experience? And really, why is it important?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah, so practically, I think this FDE small group is a place where Faith driven entrepreneurs can come together, they have, as Henry mentioned, the short video where they’re able to really see an example, a story told of an entrepreneur who has walked this journey before them, and then they’re able to come together and really discuss it and bring this practical experience. What’s really unique about it is that it’s bringing a lot of entrepreneurs who maybe they’ve read a book before, maybe they have read an article, something that’s really stimulating this idea of integrating faith and work together. But they don’t know what that next step is. They’re not ready to jump into something that’s a much greater commitment, like a Praxis or C12 convene and something like that. This is a great first step to really connect them first to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community, get them really thinking about their ideas about that, challenging what it looks like to integrate faith and work. And then after this group, we are always really pushing them to those next steps of what does that look like for each person?

Is it going next to Praxis, to C12, convene ocean or whatever that may be to really help them go even deeper?

Rusty Rueff: I love that. I love that. I mean, I think we all sort of need an on ramp, if you will, to how we go deeper in our faith and how we go deeper in our relationships with others that have similar experiences we have. So I think it’s really, really powerful. I’m in a small group in my church and have been for 15 years. And, you know, the journey that we’ve come along together as we’ve all grown, you know, has been just so enriching in my own life. So I encourage everybody to think about this. I know we’re in the midst of our second cohort of these FDE small groups. So can you tell our listeners, you know, what these groups are about, how they’re formed, kind of what they do?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah. So it really starts with a first step of somebody who’s interested, coming onto our website, filling out a registration form, saying, hey, I’m curious about this. I’m going to find out more. I want to be a part of one of these groups. And then we’re able to place 12 to 15 entrepreneurs and a group that’s led by really incredible facilitators. The people that we have facilitating these groups, they love Jesus. They are experienced entrepreneurs and they have a lot of wisdom to be able to share. But also we’re really good at connecting the people in the group. So Henry and William are both some of our facilitators. We also you’ve heard in other podcasts from Andrew and Vep, and these are some of the people that are facilitating these groups and bringing them together each week. We just meet for an hour, we watch the video, we talk, we share and we celebrate together and talk about challenges that they’re facing and problem solve together where possible as well.

Rusty Rueff: Well, you know, we love stories so early on now a month and a half, two months. You have stories for us about what you’re hearing about what’s happening in these groups.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the exciting stories that we just heard a couple of weeks ago is Henry ran one of these cohorts back in the fall and one of the ladies that was a part of that lives in Kampala, Uganda. And she was so encouraged by it that she’s taking this group and she has just started a small group in Kampala with 15 women entrepreneurs. She has a vision to see women in Uganda being able to step into the marketplace, give them access, resources and encouragement. They need to do that. And so she’s using this study as a first step to do that. Another story that’s just been really encouraging has been as we went through week for talking about how excellence matters, one of our small groups had a really personal and intense discussion about what that looks like as believers. And so to watch these entrepreneurs come together and discuss matters of faith and how that applies to the workplace, they were wrestling with specific issues about what it looks like in their particular business to love their customers well, while also maintaining a balance with their family. And they’re talking about how it’s really hard to pursue excellence while also being excellent in their family and their business and everywhere and what that poll looks like as a believer. So hearing some of those just raw moments with people I think have brought a connection. You say love storytelling. I love storytelling, too. And I think that really loves storytelling. So I think when we tell stories, we’re doing exactly what he says throughout the Bible to do, to remember what he has done so that we’re able to then speak faith and truth to other people so that their faith will grow, that if I hear, man, God did this amazing thing for Rusty and I can believe that God’s going to do the same kind of thing for me in the future.

And it builds my faith by sharing and remembering what Gottstein. For others.

Rusty Rueff: Uh, so I know we have listeners right now who are saying there going, oh, I would love to do this, but, you know, I don’t have time. I don’t know how I’d fit it in. Is this really for me? Bring them home, give the pitch. You know, why do they need this? And then we’ll go to, you know, what they do next.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah. So there’s a million really good things that we can all do with our time. Right. And there’s so many great opportunities. I think what makes this unique and what I would say is the reason that they should take the plunge and do it anyway is that this is a place where God can bring growth in a way that is unique to other places.

I can go to my church and I’m finding immense, profound spiritual growth, but it’s not always connecting with the work that I’m doing. And so to wrestle with other people in that same place is really unique. And that’s not to say that we don’t need to be spending our time wrestling with matters of faith and the church. Absolutely. That’s where we need to be doing that as well. So I would just challenge our entrepreneurs that are listening right now to really ask yourself, what are you looking for right now? Are you looking to grow in your faith and your work together?

And if so, it’s worth taking the time one hour a week for eight weeks to really devote yourself to this study and connecting with other people to see what God can do through you during this time.

Rusty Rueff: I think it’s great. And I like the way you talk about this being additive. So I’m a church guy, right? I love my church. I think it’s important that we’re in church, that we have church community. So we might be in a small group in our church. This is not a replacement for that. This is additive. This is our small group for our vocation, our profession, and how we expand and bring glory to God in our work. So I want to just hit on that point because I would want anybody. We have a lot of pastors listening, right? We don’t want him to go. Oh, wait a minute. They’re trying to take people out of our small groups. No, no, no, no, no. This is all additive.

Henry Kaestner: Absolutely. I’m glad you made that point. The other thing is we’ve talked about before, there are some groups and some ministries take a really, really deep with entrepreneurs and local community. They’ve got just very rigorous approaches to building meaningful community among peers. C12, FCI, convene CIBM. See, of course, the work that is done really intentionally with the ocean accelerator, with Praxis or movement is the top end of the funnel. It’s helping a entrepreneur to understand they’re part of a larger tribe, part of a larger movement that God is doing in the marketplace, and for them to really lean into that and then as they then interact to find different local communities that we really want to help them to find. We have 50 different partner organizations now on the FDE marketplace all around the world. We’re talking about Uganda. And as this group of women are then finished going through the FDE video series, there’s Hindiya, which is on the ground in Uganda. You’ve got the work of Zappos to be able to give some really great training and then further community. So this is a big movement with lots of really key players. And by the way, what we’re talking about that as you want to get more involved in some of the incredible ministries in the world, they’re doing great work in the space. Please reach out to VEP, who’s our director of partnerships for the FDE marketplace, and he can walk you through them. They’re all doing incredible work and many of them are getting contributions in terms of mentors, but then also financial support that we provide them and many others do. So important to note, this is part of a larger ecosystem. Thanks, Rusty.

William Norvell: Absolutely. I feel like we are just blessed with relationships. And, you know, you mentioned some around the world. There’s Missy Wallace at the National Institute of Faith and Work and now taken over Redeemer Faith and Work Center. There’s Jeff Hanan in the difference to the faith and work.

And we really see our goal as being the top of the funnel to help you find your tribe. And what I love about Watsa, Alice is talking about what my group’s experiences.

Hey, this is a great almost like a missing step in the movement to come in for eight weeks, be a part of something, and then we get to build that list of what’s next. Right. You could start your own group if you’re in Denver. You need to be Jeff Hanan. If you’re in Nashville, you need to meet Missy. If you’re in Uganda, you need to meet, you know, the hincker folks and things like that. So it’s been fun to see and help people find their tribe. And I think that’s what Sue Alice, it’s just really been ramping up over the last few months. And so on that note, I would love to give you an opportunity to talk about what else is there. You know, so this eight week program is a nice bite sized approach to come in, get a little taste of things. One of the things I’ve loved in my groups is watching the other people. I’ve been talking to some other people. And this is actually you know, I’ve been getting together with Stephanie on the side. We’ve been talking every week. And so, you know, obviously that’s really fun to see relationship start that will last beyond the group. But what other offerings are you working on right now that maybe if people don’t want to join the group, that other things they could plug into?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah, that’s great. Well, I would say for one of those things, if you feel like you’ve already kind of done this and this is your. Already, as an entrepreneur, maybe it’s your opportunity to lead one of these small groups that you can take the opportunity to do that wherever you are and step into that. Another thing that we’re doing is called flight school. So once a month, we are bringing in really amazing speakers, not just to talk because anybody can listen to somebody talk.

You guys are listening to a podcast right now, but this gives interaction as well. So it’s an opportunity once a month to come and not only hear from these incredible speakers, but then interact with them, have a live Q&A time with them, have networking time at some virtual tables where you’re really able to go a bit deeper. And so coming up over the next few months, we’re going to hear from actually, William, you’re going to be up very soon in March. And we also have Rusty coming up as well. Jessica Kim, David Sayer’s and Cleeve, we have some really amazing people coming. So that’s a great place to go. A little bit deeper on specific topics. Those are definitely and more typically focused venue. We also have our conference coming up in September. So on September 9th, we have our FDE conference. One day it’s going to be incredible. And it is a virtual conference about what we’re trying to do is bring it local. Again, we want to take what is happening kind of at this high level and bring it down to the one, bring it down to each person, connect with each person that really needs to integrate their faith and work as an entrepreneur. And so we’re looking to have local site hosts all over the world. We already have a few people committed across the world in Egypt and South Africa and in Atlanta. So you name it, we want to go there. So if that’s something that anyone listening is interested in participating with us and partnering with us as a site host, you can go to our website and check that out and find out more information there.

William Norvell: Absolutely. That’s amazing. And you just want to point out, I mean, I’m going to choose a minute to encourage Rusty a little bit, for instance. Right. I don’t know if we’ve specifically spent a lot of time talking to Rusty background, but Rusty has got a lot of experience and a lot of hard won wisdom in the Amen people management and corporate culture space. And so he’s going to be doing one of these flight schools where he’s going to give if you have not heard, I don’t think we’ve given him the opportunity to give his shadow of a leader talk, but he’s probably sprinkled in snippets over the years. I mean, that is just such an opportunity to learn from someone who’s been in there who understands it. And then it’s a great Q&A format to where you can bring your questions and talk to someone. And it’s going to be amazing. And I’m so excited for those events and to see how that grows. So thank you for doing that.

And by the way, I feel no pressure now. I feel good. Good. We’re going to record it and we’re going to send it to everybody. If you’re on the mailing list, you’re getting it. But it really is. I mean, I learn every time, you know, it’s one of those thought-Provoking things.

When you think about being an entrepreneur and building a company, you can hear over and over and over again and always take great wisdom from it.

And the same for all the other speakers coming up through someone listening, an entrepreneur, you’ve got them hooked. What’s some of the first steps? How would they find out about some of these events? Where can they sign up?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: What’s the best way to get involved so everything can be found on Faith Driven Entrepreneur, ERG? So under the Community and Events tab, you can find information about joining a small group, leading a small group flight school, the conference, all of those things are there, as well as a lot of other really encouraging content videos, podcasts, the daily blog, all of that can be found right there. So the first step is just go to the Web site and filling out one of those forms, taking the bold step to raise your hand and say, I’m ready to try this.

William Norvell: That’s great, and so, Alice, I want to give you one last chance here as we come towards the close, what would be your last plea for entrepreneurs to find a community of minded folks to walk down this journey with?

Sue Alice Sauthoff: You know, statistics show us that entrepreneurs are anywhere from two to 10 times more likely to suffer from mental challenges. The stress is really intense scene that personally, even within my own family, of how that has affected them. And so God didn’t design us to live alone. He designed us to live in community. We are many parts of one body, and when the body tries to function, a person tries to function as the body all by itself, not realizing that it’s just a part. It doesn’t go well. That’s not how God created us. And so this is an opportunity for the body of Christ as entrepreneur, specifically in your vocation, to come together and encourage one another and build each other up and be encouraged and be built up and walk this journey with other people that just can’t be oversold because that’s how God designed us.

William Norvell: Can’t say much better than that. Thank you for giving us that vision for what it could be like to be in community. And as we do come to a close, the thing we love to do is try to transcend our listeners and our audience through the word of God. And I would love to invite you to share where God has you in his word, either today or in the season, whatever might come to mind to share with them and walk us through that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: So three years ago, God said it was time to start walking through the Bible very slowly, cover to cover three years. Then I’m in Isaiah now, very slow journey. But what’s been really beautiful to see as I’ve been reflecting over themes of where God has brought his people up through the time of where I am and Isaiah, is this constant battle between the children of Israel trusting God and his story that he’s writing for them or trusting empire? And as we’ve had kind of a crazy last few months, I think God has shown me where I have wanted to trust Empire, where I’ve wanted to trust in the security that the world can offer, whether that’s a stable government health economy, stabilized things that maybe living in this Western world that I do, I don’t even realize how much faith and trust I put in those rather than trusting God and the story that he’s writing for me. And like in Isaiah Chapter 30, he says you look to Egypt for certainty and he says your identity is wrapped up in the holy city. It’s not wrapped up in God. But then he says in returning and Rusty will be saved and quietness and trust, you’ll find strength. And so that’s where I’m really trying to sit and rest right now and be quiet before him and let him remind me that I can trust his story, I can trust what he is doing and that he is good. He wants good for me and that my certainty is not in a place or other people, but it’s in a God who creates places for me to bring him into the world.

William Norvell: Hmm, Amen, thank you for sharing. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for all you do. Amen FDE and for bringing this Much-Needed piece of community to entrepreneurs around the world. Was really great to be with you guys today.

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We can confidently say that today’s guest is the first person we’ve had on the show who was also a part of The Bachelorette. That’s right. Before Jason Illian was pioneering disruptive technologies, he spent time sharing a house with 24 other guys trying to woo one girl’s heart. 

He didn’t make it very far in the show (something he and his current wife are both grateful for!), but he did take that platform and use it for something else—namely, sharing his faith. He has written a book, started a Christian version of YouTube, but is here today to talk to us about Koch Disruptive Technologies, where he is looking for emerging high-growth technologies across a range of industries that are poised to be a benefit to society.

Episode Transcript

Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Jason Illian: Listen, I grew up in Nebraska, and it used to be it just jumped on your tractor and now the tractor drives itself right now. The soil is monitoring itself. And now we’re using next generation technology to fertilize it and keep track of it and measure it. And so technology and breakthroughs are happening everywhere. And we believe as part of it is we want to be part of that. Doesn’t matter if you’re in Silicon Valley, if you’re in Israel or if you’re in Cincinnati. You know, we want to back those best entrepreneurs and learn from them, be a true partner.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Investor podcast, this is the podcast for you as you endeavor to understand what’s a community of believers talking about, thinking about what’s going on as people come to understand how they might stored the wealth that God has entrusted them with. And every week we talk to somebody else that has a new perspective, a different story about how God is using them. And the hope, of course, is that you’ll come away from this time understanding and knowing God a little bit more fully by talking to somebody else that shares your faith and is intentional understanding how to bring faith into the investment world as you are and that you’ll just be encouraged by the broader community of people that are looking at this space. And we’ve got a great guest today. We’ve got Jason Elián, who’s got such a really, really cool background that I hope that he’ll share with us, but then also great perspectives and experience and what he does right now as he allocates capital and is driven by his faith as he does so. So, Jason, welcome to the program.

Jason Illian: Hey, thanks for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this.

Henry Kaestner: So with every guest, we like to understand a bit of their background, who they are. A quick autobiographical sketch. I know enough about your background to think that this rather than just kind of just doing a quick flyover of 90 seconds, that this is worth spending a little bit more time on. So do that. Who are you where do you come from now that I’ve intrigued our audience like that?

Jason Illian: Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having me. You know, it’s interesting during the day, right? It’s Jason Allen, one of the managing directors at Koch. But most of the day I’m being known as either Alicia’s husband. Right. Or dad to my three kids, rogue, rain and sage. And so my three kiddos, they’re almost 13, 11 and 10. Their names are all biblical names like Rain Comes from Isaiah. Forty five. We’re talking about how the Lord reigns and how he’s going to tear down mountains and do things in his name. So that’s where his name comes from. And Sage is for the Lord’s wisdom comes from Zephaniah. And then my youngest is named Roeg. And Roeg is as is set apart for the Lord. Before I knew you in the womb, I set you apart. And his name’s Roeg and so is really important from us, my wife and I, from just the word go to say, hey, they’re dedicated to the Lord. This is what our family is going to be about. And and most of the time, like I said, I’m known as Alicia’s husband. And if you’ve met my wife, you realize you have the wrong one on the podcast. Right now, I’ve clearly outputted my wife. We could switch you. She really should. Lifeline a lifeline. Yes. This is where you phone a friend and get her on the line and you get much more interesting biblical insights than you get from her husband. But I met my wife speaking actually at a church about fifteen years ago, and she just finished writing a book called Chasing Perfect, which is helping Christian women get through the noise to really have a personal relationship with Jesus. And so we met fifteen years ago, kind of taking a step back to hear just a little bit more from me as I ended up going to school at TCU and Fort Worth, Texas, came to know the Lord when I was 17 years old at an NCAA football camp. I thought I was going to the camp so that I could show my great athletic prowess. And they were giving an award for somebody that exemplified the most Christlike behavior. And I was thinking, well, that must be me. And if you’re thinking it’s you, it’s definitely not you. Right? And so they had this kid come out and pray for us. And as he was praying, I realized he had something I didn’t. He had this relationship with the creator, God Almighty, and it was real and it was authentic. And he had this piece about him. And I based a lot of my identity on what I could do right. And playing football and doing well in school. And that just shifted it completely and came to know the Lord there. And then I went off TCU played college football, Texas Christian University go Frogs’. I know we have some other Bama and Baylor guys around. That’s OK.

William Norvell: I’ll speak slowly for you guys in North Carolina this year. Let’s not leave him. Yeah that’s true. They showed up this year.

Henry Kaestner: Thank you, William. The essay did Mack Brown.

Jason Illian: They brought their game so I wouldn’t play ball out there. And my goal had always been to go play NFL football, but had some injuries there. But really what I found is when I got there, I became part of the FCA. I’d never really led any Christian ministry before, but the FCA grew from about 40 or 50 kids to at the time when I left about five hundred and fifty. And that guy just blessed it. Right. And God gave me this amazing opportunity at TCU to grow athletically. Intellectually, my background is international finance as well as spiritually. Just put amazing godly men around me to help form the type of man I am today. I owe a lot of that to my time at TCU. My degree was finance. So I went to the London School of Economics, got recruited at Strong Capital Management. They did investment management had about forty five billion in assets under management.

And when I was there, this was late 90s, early 2000s. We were tracking all these companies in this tech space and some of my friends were like the first non founding member of Napster. We’re building a company called Friendster. One of my friends had their distribution rights to this small company called the Amazon, and I was watching these things in my real interest was the Internet back in the day, used to just be flat. You just went there for information. And what was happening is it started to become transactional and even more importantly, started becoming relational. And when I saw that you could start to build relationships potentially over, this became really intriguing to me. And so I ended up being in finance for four or five years, moved back to Dallas and ran a company called Gadhia, which was the first Christian video site. And one month we had twenty thousand users. In the next month we had two million and it really grew that fast.

Henry Kaestner: One that feels like kind of like how our podcast is exploded with with our listener base.

William Norvell: I mean, you know, it’s it’s a little bit I mean, I think we’ve eclipsed most of that at this point, but yeah.

Jason Illian: That those are small for you guys.

Henry Kaestner: Twenty thousand to two million. That’s unbelievable.

Jason Illian: Yeah. I want to say in the early 2000s, for a couple of months, we on the fastest growing websites on the planet, we just grew tremendously and would love to take credit for that. But the reality was, is it was content that people were really hungry for. Right. They really wanted to have the Google centered content that was safe for their kids. And, you know, we had a few videos that just went viral. And as they went viral, it just grew and grew the site. And we later ended up selling the site to Salem Communications, started another company called Bookshop, which was an e-book company. And then I ran that until twenty seventeen and sold that to a private equity group and then decided that I was going to take some time off. So my wife in her wisdom said, hey, you’ve been running hard. And as you guys know from the type of people you interview and work with this building companies and building startups is hard, right? It wears you out physically, emotionally, spiritually. And my wife said you should just pray about this and take a year off. And so I was at my home in Dallas just playing with my kids, you know, swimming, mowing the lawn, doing Bible studies and driving back and forth between Wichita to see my wife’s family from time to time. And through those connections and some other God ordained introductions 10 years earlier, I got to know the team at Coach and Chase Koch, who is the president of our division and the son of Charles, our founder. So he was getting ready to start a growth and venture arm for Koch Industries and asked if I want to be part of it. And so my wife and I prayed about it and we thought about it and decided this is where God would have us be. So we sold our home that we’d lived in for less than a year and moved to Wichita, Kansas, which is where I am today.

Henry Kaestner: So this is the faith of investors, most definitely not the faith driven reality show participant, but some of our listeners are going to know a little bit about that story. And presumably, as you’re coming out of FCA, motivated by your faith, you see that there’s an opportunity to live that out in a way that actually made quite an impression on a lot of people because it was a great witness and testimony. You were on The Bachelorette in your faith, came to play to spend just a second on that. What that looked like. As you know, you’re in an environment now where you’re doing something that’s unexpected is countercultural. And I think that maybe there are aspects that shouldn’t be presumptuous or prescriptive, but there’s things that you might have an opportunity as an investor to be countercultural. But this won’t be the first time that you’ve been countercultural. You’ve done that before. Just speak briefly to that.

Jason Illian: Yeah. You know, one of the things that’s really interesting about life and how God has it is our paths aren’t linear. Right. And his ways are greater than our ways. His thoughts are greater than our thoughts. And he’s just asking us to be faithful in whatever moment that we’re in, in whatever situation that we’re in and how do we live that out. And so that’s certainly played out in my life many ways. And one of those was through being on this reality television show, The Bachelorette, which was it was like the second season I was on. So it was still relatively new to this. And how it came about was even throughout this story that I just told you, this narrative of my life, I’ve continued to be involved in ministry. And I came home one night from speaking at church and I flipped on the TV and The Bachelor was on. And while I was making dinner, Jesse Palmer, who is now on ESPN, he was on the show and one of the girls asked him, why are you here? And he said, well, you know, I get tired of waking up every morning with a different girl, not knowing her name where I am.

And I just stopped and said, where do they find these idiots? Like he’s doing more damage in ten seconds on television than all of the things that we’re trying to talk about our faith and how do we should live out purity and how do we push towards traditional family and marriage? And I was telling one of my friends about it and he said, well, if you think you can do better, why don’t you send your application in and almost out of a dare? I just did. So I sent it and I didn’t think much of it. About three or four weeks later, I get this call and it was so and so from ABC’s The Bachelorette. And I thought it was my friend. That is give me a tough time, so I just gave them a tough time, I gave this person a tough time for like 10 minutes on the phone. And I’m like, yeah, sure you are. And I’m the pope. How can I help you? And I just kept going on and on until I finally realized that it was them. And I said, I’m really not a fit for your show. I’m like, I’ve seen the type of people on your show. That’s not the life that I live. It’s not a lot of the things that I believe in from a faith perspective. And they said, listen, just come on the show and just interview. There’s like five rounds of interviews and you may not make it through anyways, but we’d love to talk to you. So I did. And, you know, you do on camera interview and do in person interview. And there’s one where you fill out, I don’t know, an inch thick of background paperwork. And in there they asked, you know, all the people you’ve slept with. Well, it was a virgin at the time, right? I was saving myself for marriage, so I just left it blank and I turned it in and they brought it back and said, you missed the section. And I said, no, I just hadn’t slept with anyone. And when I said that, you could have heard a pin drop in the room, right. It was like they just cast a serial killer on the show or something. Right. They just couldn’t fathom why anybody would do this. And so it just started this ongoing conversation of my time throughout this television show, just saying, listen, what I believe and what God has for us and at the highest level of intimacy is matched at the highest level of commitment marriage. I said that’s how God has designed our family structure. And so I got a chance in front of ten million of my closest friends to have this conversation on national TV with Gen Sheft, who was The Bachelorette at the time. And it was because of that conversation that I got voted off. Right, because she didn’t believe that was very lovable. But what most people don’t know is I got thousands, hundreds of thousands of emails and calls from people that just said thank you. I said we need more examples of this and said I didn’t go on the show necessarily to make a point. Right. I didn’t go there saying, hey, I’m going to pound my hand on the table and here’s what I’m standing for. I’m just honestly just living my life as I feel like God’s called me to that. And, you know, God’s provides those opportunities. Right? He did that with The Bachelorette.

You know, I wrote a book early on called MySpace My Kids, when MySpace was just roughly a million users that was helping Christian families just understand this thing called social networking. It seems so basic today, but back in the day, we didn’t know what we were about to embark upon. And so when God opens those doors, I just try to be faithful. It’s not that I had this master plan. I’m sure God does, but I don’t see it clearly. And just take those moments to be faithful and try to have an impact.

Henry Kaestner: So that’s and an obvious question. And maybe we’ll go there, which is that was, as I said before, it’s countercultural for you to talk about celibacy on a show like The Bachelorette. Do you see opportunities to be countercultural and what’s going on right now in the world through what you do right now? So you’re managing director of Koch Industries for Disruptive Technologies. Yeah, and I’m going to ask a two part question. One is, some people are going to say, what in the world is disruptive technologies? But then also, why don’t you riff a little bit about how your faith in your worldview impacts the way that you see your job?

Jason Illian: Yeah. Yeah, it’s a good question. So maybe to back up just a little bit, Koch Industries, if most people don’t know. Right, we’re roughly one hundred and twenty dollars billion privately held company and it’s really a number of companies that are put together. So if you have a cell phone, this components in that cell phone from one of our companies called Molex. If you are living in any type of house or building structure, it’s probably has Georgia-Pacific Materials, which is a Kochcompany.

Henry Kaestner: So it doesn’t apply to people living in teepees.

Jason Illian: But if you live in a house where the tea is made of toilet paper, then yes, because that’s also Georgia-Pacific, right? So, yeah. Yeah. So basically, think of it this way. Right. We’re in sixty five countries. We have roughly forty thousand trucks on the road at any time that have Kochmaterial in them. And you know, if you popped open the hood of Koch industries, what you’d really realize is it was built by entrepreneurs for entrepreneurs. Right. So one things that Charles has really done is saying I’m going to align incentives, push decision rates down to the bottom and let people create products and services that will make people’s lives better. And we want to do it at an affordable and efficient way. And so as the company continues to grow, they said, hey, we need to build a growth in venture arm so that we don’t get disconnected from those people that make transformative change. And that’s really what birth certificate. And so day one, there was two of us here chased Koch and myself as one of the founding members. And we built a team of about twenty five investment professionals, including three in Israel. And we’re a stage in industry agnostic arm, so we can write a check as small as a couple million and as large as a few. Million dollars per check and it’s a greenfield fund, right? So it’s all of our own cash on balance sheet, we can do 15 investments this year. We can do one investment. You know, we’re only really bound by what we deem to be something that will truly be disruptive. And so what does that mean? I mean, what is disruptive actually mean? Well, I look at it. Is is it a platform? Is it something that is going to make people’s lives better, more efficient, cheaper change the way that they live their life? So I remember the first time I heard a pitch for something like Uber, right? It was people like, hey, one day random strangers are going to pick you up in their car and take you to where you want to go. And people were like, are you crazy? I’m never getting in some stranger’s car. And now that’s just what we do, right? You guys know with grab I mean, you guys are that’s you understand. But this is a lot of the things that sounded crazy back in the day or just the way we do things today. Airbnb is another example, right? You’re going to stay in somebody else’s house on their couch, like who’s going to do that? And so these are transformative companies that change our behavior in the way that we live our lives. And a lot of those came in consumer areas to start with. But they’re also now coming across be to be industrial manufacturing, a number of other areas as well. And so, you know, we invested in a company called Desktop Metal, which prints three D metal parts, which are being used by Jewelleries, like Tiffany’s, are being used by BMW for parts. And so we look at all those types of various technologies and really invest in the people, because at the end of the day, you’re investing in the people who are building those types of technologies. And yeah, we put about a billion dollars to work over the last three years and I think we’re just getting started.

William Norvell: Wow, that’s fantastic. So when I think about the rise of entrepreneurship has just been incredible, I think over the last 10 years, you know, we talk about that our entrepreneurs are cultural change agents. You know what Elon Musk is to our generation? Mickey Mantle was to my dad’s right. And it’s just amazing how that’s continued and continues to spread across the country. You know, Henry and I are here in Silicon Valley or maybe that was a thing 20 years ago and we’re obviously biased. But I grew up in Alabama where when I go back home in my small town of 60000 people, I see, you know, coworking spaces and tech hubs and, you know, of course, in the bigger cities, Birmingham and Huntsville, it’s just it’s all anyone can talk about. And from Wichita, Kansas, I would imagine, you know, that name doesn’t scream innovation and entrepreneurship to most of our listeners, maybe screams fantastic college basketball first. But could you let us in to what you see? So you’re around the world now, but specifically maybe from the Midwest perspective of what do you see happening in entrepreneurship and in sort of how that is part of society and how God could be using that to bring his visions into the workplace?

Jason Illian: It’s a good question. And I think what people in you and Henry can probably speak to this better than I can. But what happened in Silicon Valley didn’t happen overnight. Right? It was decades and decades of building on top of one another with defense and semiconductors, Internet and mobile. It grew into what it has become, right. It became that melting pot of great ideas and ways for people to interact and take new risks in terms of building next generation platforms. And I think what you see happening is that’s starting to happen all over the country and all over the world. Right. So look at what Brad Feld has built in Boulder, Colorado. Right. It used to be you walk down downtown Boulder. Yeah, I maybe grab a bite to eat, but that was about it. Now you walk down there and there’s tech companies and people all over the place building next generation technology. Same things with the Walton family’s done in northwestern Arkansas. That has become a vibrant tech hub where people are wanting to move. They want to raise their families there. They can look at anything from mobility services to next generation data companies. And then I think what you’re seeing in Austin, too, right? I think you and Henry had the way to make a sound in the media. You may be the only thing left in California because our base moved Austin. Right. And so what’s happening is you’re starting to see great entrepreneurship. And it’s one of the reasons we’re friends with Eric Schmidt. And what Steve Case is doing with Rise of the rest is there’s all these ecosystems that are starting to grow up and there can be great entrepreneurs anywhere. Right. Great entrepreneurs don’t want to guarantee. They just want an opportunity. Right. So how do we find those and give them an opportunity? And so, you know, Steve Case made this bet before covid hit. And I think Ovid’s only accelerated that to say, yeah, you can talk about the Austins and you can talk about the boulders. But what you’re starting to see is what’s happening in Cincinnati and Miami and Minneapolis and hopefully Wichita as well, that we can start to think of ourselves as a place where we’re giving people new opportunities and those new opportunities. Without a cap on them in terms of what they want to grow and what they want to build, but with that comes the need for capital, right? Need for community. You have to have the people and the right skill sets around you and also just the knowledge sets that you’re going to need to bring in there because problems become more complex as we break into new areas. But listen, I grew up in Nebraska and it used to be it just jumped on your tractor and now the tractor drives itself. Right now, the soil is monitoring itself. And now we’re using next generation technology to fertilize it and keep track of it and measure it. And so technology and breakthroughs are happening everywhere. And we believe as part of it is we want to be part of that. Doesn’t matter if you’re in Silicon Valley, if you’re in Israel or if you’re in Cincinnati. You know, we want to back those best entrepreneurs and learn from them, be a true partner.

William Norvell: Now, that’s great. And did you give us a sense and I don’t know, you know, do you have a sense for our investments in those areas? I’m trying to play the cynic here. Right. You know, I read a report this morning that, yes. You know, tech hubs are growing, of course. But if you look at the data from last year, you know, the venture capital dollars in San Francisco still outstrip L.A., New York, Seattle, Portland, Austin combined. Right. That’s just a data point, is it today? Right. That’s a balance sheet metric. But I’m interested in what you’re seeing out there in the field as you invest and sort of come alongside rise of the rest. I mean, is it working? You know, are we in inning three and we’re, you know, five innings away or they’re still unknowns out there about whether it’s going to work? Or is it just exactly what you said about San Francisco right now? We just got to keep building layer after layer and it’s clearly working.

Jason Illian: Yeah, I mean, listen, there’s not one answer. That’s a broad brush that works in every community. It’s working in some places better than others, and some are more mature than others. And so at the end of the day, if you go to Austin now versus Austin 10 years ago, it’s working significantly better. Right. Wichita still has some work to do, right? We’re not as far along. But what I would say is what covid really did is kind of lead just five years into the future, 10 years into the future, and you’re starting to see even just the prices and cost of living like living where you live versus living where I live, you know, where your kids can go to school. The other amenities and things that you want to have covered has taught us we can work remote. And so what’s happening is it’s causing people to spread out. And you’re going to have these events where there’s a black swan event or just technology accelerating that creates these communities around. And, you know, people sometimes forget that MailChimp, which is one of the largest privately held tech companies, is in Atlanta. It’s not in the Bay Area. Right. A few of our big investments have happened in Denver because people have said, hey, we’re going to leave the Bay Area, but we want to be in Denver. And I just think there’s great people everywhere. Now, it may not have the concentration of Silicon Valley yet, but that’s not to be expected overnight. We got to continue to build on it. And Chicago’s a good example. You get something like Groupon that’s successful and those founders spread out and create more companies and they invest in other great entrepreneurs and that ecosystem continues to build.

Henry Kaestner: Tell us about Israel. So you’ve got a guy on the ground in Israel. I’ve been to Haifa before. I seen some of the dynamism there listening to this podcast. Are you going to be interested in just what happens in a kind of a special geography that’s politically charged? It’s got a spiritual foundation, but there is something special about what’s going on in Israel. Maybe you can comment on that a little bit.

Jason Illian: Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. Israel is a leader in technology, in building platforms. And part of this comes because everybody’s trained in the military over there. Everybody has to be trained and a lot of them have technology backgrounds that they’ve actually been trained in. And I also think you’re willing to take risk goes up when you live, you know, fifty miles from somebody willing to shoot a rocket at you at any time. Right. So you live in an environment that you realize that taking risk building a tech company is not as risky as getting shot by a rocket or by somebody that doesn’t have the same belief system as you do. And so what Israel is built is this really robust ecosystem of great technical entrepreneurs. And they’re coming up with all sorts of great technologies. And you can talk about companies like Mobileye which have help helping autonomous driving. But even our first investment as a company called Tech and we invested over one hundred million dollars in this company, does noninvasive focus ultrasound on people that have essential tremors or Parkinson’s? So the first time I saw this, a gentleman was shaking so bad that he couldn’t write his own name or hold a cup of coffee. So he lays in an ultrasound machine, special helmet, and it uses ultrasound waves to ablate the part of the brain that deals with the shakes. He stands up two and a half hours later in the shakes are gone and it looks like magic, noninvasive, like no cutting the skull open, no peeling your head back. This is hey, what if we use the ultra? Sound waves, and we pinpointed them at a place that we could kill whatever is causing that to happen. We’ll take the next step. What if we can use that for cancer? What if we could use that for blood clots? What if we could use it for all sorts of other things? This is an Israeli company, right? So our thought is like, listen, once again, there’s great entrepreneurs all over the place. How do we help connect to them, help you, that connective tissue? Because we’re in different countries and a big part of our investing mandate is not that we can just deploy capital. I think there’s a lot of really smart investors that do that. But how can we come alongside them as a partner? How can we help them accelerate the growth of their platform and those entrepreneurs that want to do well by doing good. And they need a real partner to do that. That has capital. You know, we may be a good place for them.

Henry Kaestner: So as you talk through this and you talk about technologies that can and maybe I shouldn’t get overly biblical about this, you know, it’s in the Holy Land, Jesus was healing people that had leprosy and others. And there’s kind of a two thousand years on, you know, walking with tremors and you walk out without it. It’s almost miraculous and almost feels that is you’re in this space. And we all have found ourselves kind of in this world of these disruptive technologies and investing in them, that if you have a propensity towards a God complex, you get involved in inventing technologies like that or and financing technologies. You know, there’s a temptation to kind of feel like, you know, Alec Baldwin in the movie Malice, which talks about, you know, you want to know if I’ve got a God complex. Well, who is the person saving your life at 12, 30 am an emergency or operating room for when you talk about the technology you just talked about? I think about Kalikow, which is this initiative to end aging. Right. That’s the final frontier for us to become godlike, immortal. And yet you’re talking to people, entrepreneurs and technologists every day that see that aging might end. Right. How does your faith come to bear in all of that?

Jason Illian: Yeah, I think you’re asking a really important question that we haven’t asked ourselves enough in the technology space is we often ask what we can do and we don’t ask why or what are our boundaries are on this like. So why do we want to stop aging, right? Or why do we want to change the financial system and what are the repercussions? So we’re seeing the repercussions of social media right now. We wanted a better way to communicate. Now, what we’ve got is we have partizan division. We have people being blocked because of this. We have some large tech conglomerates that are starting to tell you what you can and can’t say. Right. So, you know, I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but somewhere between nineteen eighty four and brave new world things are happening. Right. And we see this in China with the social credit system. What happens when all of a sudden technology can become used to monitor everything you do? So it’s very important that we’re investing in those entrepreneurs that one have a sense of humility, that they’re not leaning towards this God complex of taking over the world, but they want to do well and they know their limitations. Right. I think it’s very important that we are investing in entrepreneurs that know their limitations and are also putting other great entrepreneurs and investors beside them. Right. Scripture says plans fail for lack of a council, but with many advisors they succeed. So how do we put people around ourselves, just like we should do in our own personal lives, to have people point out our blind spots left to my own? I’m going to step into the ditch where the ditch is on the right or left hand side of the road. I’m going to hit one of the ditches unless I have brothers, advisors, counselors, mentors helping remind me of my limitations in the team that we put in place. And so we want to invest in those entrepreneurs. Right? We certainly want to invest in those entrepreneurs that know their own limitations, build great teams around them, but also have what I call cognitive flexibility, ability to take different mental models and know when and where to apply them, because there are new challenges that are coming up in our world and we need to know how to approach them as believers and have a stance on those. Right. A lot of people say we got to defend the faith. The word defend doesn’t resonate well with me because you don’t need to defend a lion. You just need to unchain it and let it defend itself. So we just need to be bold in our stances and we need to be honest. We need to be intellectually faithful to know what we believe and how to apply that. And we need to give other believers by standing up the courage to stand up and say what they believe as well. And I think that as people that invest in technology in the future, in these next new platforms, if you are to invest the next Facebook or Twitter or go beyond communication platforms to whatever. Her new medical technology. We have a responsibility beyond just the shareholder responsibility to make money, to know why we’re doing this and how this benefits society in a positive way that ultimately points to our creator and savior.

Henry Kaestner: You’re out there, you’re talking to some of the most exciting entrepreneurs in the world. Do you ever get a chance to share your story? You know, everybody, whether they’re in Israel or Silicon Valley or Wichita, has a world view that kind of directs them towards what they’re doing. And I’m wondering if any of those folks that are developing some of this disruptive technology. I know some to be clear. I did. I’m an investor, so I know some, but maybe not at the scale that you’re looking at. Do you see any that are motivated by their Christian faith? You see that any that are open to that, any that are as they go about inventing, they’re trying to figure out why they’re doing it and what’s the bigger metanarrative here? I don’t want to overly spiritualized what you do every day, but I am curious about these personal relationships that you end up developing with some really, really interesting people about what are they thinking and does that ever give you an opportunity to kind of be in a relationship with people and maybe not the same way that so deliberately countercultural as it was for you on The Bachelorette, but what does that look like?

Jason Illian: Yeah, I think sometimes we over Spiritualized sharing our faith. I mean, really what that means is building relationships and valuing the people that are in your life. Right. And as you value people, as you listen to their story, they want to know your story as well. And so I take every opportunity or I attempt to take every opportunity with any great entrepreneur to ask what they’re building, why they built it, like, what are your challenges and tell me about your family. And what happens is we build this personal relationship and then it becomes a conversation right here. I want to know what you believe. Tell me what you believe. Give me your world view. How are you seeing this world? And then can I share my world view, too? Because I would love for you to understand how I look at the world. In my world, view is a biblical world view. Now, I’m very fortunate because here at Koch, Koch are not necessarily a Christian entity, but they have what we call market based management mbm in the market based management. A lot of the philosophies around that align very well with biblical framework. Right. And so it gives me that opportunity to engage people where they are. And when you engage people and you share your story with them and they show you, you start to understand the type of people you want to do business with and live your life with. And as you know, many of these companies take years and years and years to build. And we’re going to be sitting on the boards and we’re going to be sending Christmas cards to each other and we’re going to have dinners together. You want to work with people you like, trust and respect. And that doesn’t mean they’re going to share the same Christian faith with me every time. And that’s OK, right? It’s an opportunity to build a relationship with them. But I will say there are a lot more believers in the trenches that are trying to make a difference for the kingdom than you know, and it’s an opportunity to encourage them when you run into them. And so it’s either an opportunity to share, encourage, but no matter what, it’s an opportunity to build a relationship and then see what God has with it. Things don’t always change overnight. It may be 10, 15 years down the road when somebody comes back and says, I remember this conversation I had with you, and those are wonderful conversations to have. Or when an entrepreneur calls you and said, I’m having a tough time with my wife, I’d love for you to get some feedback. Great. I’d love to share. Matthew, 18 conflict resolution with you. Let me tell you what works in my family and let me tell you all the ways it’s gone wrong. When I approached my wife like this and just to be honest, right. Believers make all the same mistakes that nonbelievers do. We just believing there’s grace for that and that, you know, God’s given us a path to that redemption and how we should interact with others.

Henry Kaestner: Now, it’s beautiful. And, you know, for our listeners, there are a great number of men and women really driven by their faith that are leaning into technology in this time. And of course, we both know the Anthony Tan story. Grab and Mark, seriously, CloudFactory. And there are many, many, many more that’s really encouraging.

William Norvell: Absolutely. And yeah, love sort of some of the concepts you talked about. I think from a code perspective, which we talked about a little bit, I read good profit years ago. I think a lot of kind of what you’re talking about is sort of espoused in there and just some incredible wisdom on how to treat people well and build transactions and deals that honor both parties and of course, a lot of their management, the MBM process you took as well. So it’s a good read for sure. If anybody finds himself needing to read about one of the largest private organizations in the world and how they become who they are.

Jason Illian: Yeah, and I think one really interesting thing is, you know, we’re told that a tree is recognized by its fruit. So I can tell you what kind of tree it is by the fruit that it’s going to show. And Charles Koch is eighty five years old. And he still is as active as he was when he was 40. Right. He is still using his opportunity and his platform to make people’s lives better. And he still comes to the office. He still gives back tremendously to things like criminal justice reform and, you know, next generation education. And I can go down the list of like 15 things that he is spearheading because he’s not sitting on a beach somewhere. Right. He did not make a ton of money and say, I’m checking out. He’s like, I have this opportunity to give back. And those are the type of men I want to work for. I want to work for those that are going to the grave, trying to help make other people’s lives better. And I feel very blessed and fortunate to do that.

William Norvell: Women and men. And as we come to closure, this section of the podcast, we always love to invite our guests to share with our listeners where God has them in scripture these days. And that could be something you read this morning. It could be something you’ve been meditating on for a season, but just maybe a story or a verse or whatever God has brought to the forefront of your life through his word.

Jason Illian: You know, I think all of us, anybody listening to the podcast and ourselves included, 12 months ago or so, we did not know we were going to be hit by something like covid, which I think’s changed all of our lives in various ways. On top of that, we went through one of the toughest election cycles that I can ever remember. I feel like we have a country that feels very divided. We have racial tensions. We have all sorts of challenges that as believers and as the church, we need to step up and lead through. Right. And so a lot of where God has been moving on my heart are just things like Joshua five, right. When Joshua is sitting there in the Angel of the Lord appears to him and he says, hey, which side are you here for? Right. Thinking like if you’re with me, we’re said, if you’re for our enemies, we’re in trouble. And the angel replies, Neither. I’m here for the Army of the Lord, saying, I’m here on behalf of God. I’m not taking sides. I’m coming to take over. Right. I’m coming to take over. So that’s when he bowed down and realizes my first thing is to worship God. Right. My first things to be at his feet. And that’s reflected again in the second chronicles where, you know, Solomon could have asked for anything and he could have asked for anything to you could ask for wisdom. He could have asked for riches. He could ask for anything. And what he really asked for is, God, give me wisdom to lead your people. How great is your people? And I need the wisdom discernment to lead them well. And because of that, everything else was a symptom of that primary ask because he desired in his heart to lead God’s people well. And that’s the same desire I want to have. I just want to have this desire to lead God’s people well, not that I’m leaving a legacy of money or how many deals that I’ve done or how successful. Hopefully those will be great symptoms because I lived my life appropriately. And it comes back to just the Sermon on the Mount of where you said, you know, blessed are the meek. Right? So I’m doing a Bible study with my kids every night. So we do a devotional every night together. And so we have to read over something again that you read over a thousand times. It makes you stop and reflect upon it. And we’re so blessed are the meek for they inherit the earth. I ask my kids, what is meek mean? And then I thought to myself, I don’t know if I know it. Right. And as we started talking about this and looking it up and what really it is, it’s power under control. It’s power under control. Right. And what we need is we need men and women that are willing to worship and recognize God is who he is. And Joshua to ask for wisdom, to lead God’s people well and then be meek. We don’t need to be shouting from the rooftops. We don’t need to be screaming on social media. We just need to know what we believe into Henry’s point early to build relationships with those people. Right. The outcome is going to be based on how the Lord wants that. I’m not in charge of the outcome any more than I was in charge of winning every TCU football game. I had a role to play. And if I caught passes and made blocks and hopefully at the end of the game, the score was in my favor. But when it wasn’t in my favor, then I got to walk away with something to learn. And in my house, my kids learned through the sports that they’re in. We either win or we learn those are our options. And so every day, just meditating on those scriptures, bringing them to the office, knowing that I’m going to have a dozen amazing potential entrepreneurs and people I get to interact with, how can I help make their lives better and value them so that they will go out there and do that to others and that virtuous cycle will continue to replicate itself. And if it does, I happen to believe lives will be changed. We’ll make money doing it right. New technologies will make this world a better place and overly hopefully it will bring us all together and make us realize that these differences that we’re fighting about, some of them are completely perceived and the other ones aren’t as wide. We think they are we just need to be able to sit at the table and have a civil discourse on most of them, Amen, Amen, that’s one of my favorite words.

I love it. I love Mique. So glad you brought that in. And also, I totally empathize with reading the exact same stories over and over. My three year old is currently obsessed with Nayman. It’s his favorite character. So we read about Sickness Amen and Healed Neyman. That’s a great story over and over and over again. And it is. It made me read it again like multiple times and it’s amazing.

So my son just asked on this exact story because I think name is a perfect example that he wanted to do something miraculous. He wanted to do something big in his simple thing was like, hey, just washing the Jordan is like, wait, I don’t want to do that. I wanna do something big in your name. He’s like, just be faithful where you are. And that’s that’s what I tell my kids is like, just be faithful where you are. And when I tell them that I’m always looking in the mirror being like, am I being faithful or I am, I’m just telling my kids this, but I got to live it out. And so what you guys are doing and how you’re continuing to have this impact through podcasts and your network and stuff is tremendous. And so thank you for what you do. And I’ll certainly be praying for all that you do. Thanks for. Thank you, brother.

It’s great being with you. Yeah, likewise, guys.

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Today’s guest is Ben Chelf. Ben is a founding partner at Elementum Ventures, has been named to ComputerWorld’s Top 40 under 40 Innovative IT Professionals, and is in the Stanford Inventor Hall of Fame. 

He has lived every part of the entrepreneurial cycle and is passionate about sharing his knowledge and experience. As part of this work, Ben also heads up the Venture Lab at Praxis, helping serial entrepreneurs research and develop new organizations from the moment of inspiration to incorporation. 

He has lived both the Faith Driven Investor and the Faith Driven Entrepreneur story, and we think you’ll enjoy hearing him talk about both.

Episode Transcript

Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Ben Chelf: It’s about the heart posture of the investor, it is about recognizing that God is constantly working on us, teaching us things, sanctifying us to use the big term.

And honestly, that’s all that’s required, paying attention to the way that the Lord is directing, being really intentional about looking for what God wants to teach you in any given moment, the way he wants to apply the gifts and talents and resources that he’s given to you, all the product on the shelf, all the different options. Look, there are tons and tons of ways, both, quote unquote, faith driven and not to deploy capital. And God can use all of it. And God does use all of it.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast, I’m here with my partner and co-host, Luke Roth. Luke, good morning. Good morning. Good to be here, Luke in from our virtual studio and Sweet and Spy and Nash, Vegas and Nashville.

Luke Roush: How does it feel to be in that it’s our new home? It’s a cool thing. Everybody’s doing it. Come on out. Water’s warm. That’s right, everybody.

Ben Chelf: Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Come on. San Francisco Bay Area. There’s hope. There is.

Henry Kaestner: Yes, there is. Ben isn’t there? And Ben is our special guest. Ben is with us in San Francisco. As you may have just gathered and I am in the South Bay down in Los Gatos. And we are going to be talking and Ben, about a whole bunch of different things today. There’s just a myriad of things we talk about. We can talk about entrepreneurship. And I think we well, a bit we’ll talk about investing. He’s a partner Elementum partners. He’s also a venture partner. I think that’s your official title. Maybe a Praxis talk about Praxis a lot because they’re really, really good at what they do as they work with us on thinking about the redemptive frame of entrepreneurship and investing. And our hope is that during today that you get a sense of, again, just a broader sense, a more textured sense, maybe, if you will, of the way the guy is working in the marketplace out here in Silicon Valley, but through investments and that you might leave your time with us today, encouraged and that you might feel that much more clarity about how you might store the wealth and the resources that God has entrusted you with and how you might participate in the work that he’s doing the world, how your interactions with entrepreneurs might be advanced and richer for you and for the entrepreneur, and that you’ll feel closer to God. That’s our hope. That’s our hope with every episode. And then it’s great to have you. We like to get a biographical sketch of every one of our guests. Who are you? Where do you come from? Why do you like baseball so much? Anything is fair game. So bring us right through, including your entrepreneurial career, including snowboarding and snowboarding. A long time. I’m asking you about it. OK, so who are you? Where do you come from? Please weave your faith. Of course, because it’s the faith driven investor. Weave your faith into that too. You grew up in a Christian house.

Ben Chelf: Yeah, well, you asked about baseball. I guess we’ll start there. That’s the most important thing, I guess. I grew up in Indiana. How did I get into baseball? It started in first grade when I’d come home. There were really only four channels on the TV at home, the major networks and WGAN, which is Chicago’s local station, where they played the Cubs games and White Sox games and whatnot. And so I come home from school. And because Wrigley Field didn’t have lights at the time, all the games are played during the day, come home from school, flip on the TV, there would be WGAN and the Cubs would be playing. And I got used to watching the Cubs after school every day. And in fact, they just happened to be on a home stretch.

And so there were a number of days in a row where was true. And then I remember the first day I come home and I flipped on the TV after school and the Cubs were playing and I was really distraught. And I asked my dad, like, where’s the Cubs game? And that’s when he taught me about baseball schedules and the fact that they travel around. And that’s kind of how I got into baseball from a very young age. My mom and dad met in seminary. And so that gives you a bit of window into the church environment at home. Tons of church in home, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, the whole nine yards. But like a lot of people, my own faith had ebbs and flows throughout, you know, definitely grew up in the church, learned a ton about God and a ton about Jesus. But when I went to college. Faith kind of took a backseat, didn’t rediscover it until graduate school. And then kind of from there, my faith matured as I became an adult, kind of interweaving the life stuff. I did come out to California for college. I like to joke that I’m a Silicon Valley cliche in every way, except for that I have faith in God. You know, I went to Stanford, I dropped out of Stanford, I started a software company. I started another company. I became a venture capitalist. I mean, I don’t know how you draw it up any differently as cliche as it comes out here, but yeah. So that’s a little bit of the personal track in the faith track.

Henry Kaestner: So tell us about that software company. You know, we also have a sister podcast for those of you don’t know, called the Faith Driven Entrepreneur talk to us about that software company dropping out of Stanford. It must have been a pretty good opportunity.

Ben Chelf: Yeah. So I was working on some new technology in the research lab there that would analyze software, looking for problems, quality problems, security problems and really, really tough stuff to find stuff that’s difficult to find in Cuba and whatnot. So oftentimes problems that would manifest themselves out in the field. And we started getting a lot of inbound requests from folks who wanted to use this technology. So we smelled the market opportunity and we decided to start a company based on that. And we productize that technology. We started selling it in the market. We grew that business to about three, four hundred fifty people before it was acquired in twenty fourteen.

Luke Roush: How many partners did you have when you got started?

Ben Chelf: And yeah, there were four of us in graduate school together and we kind of all jumped out of school over that first year to start the thing full time. And then of course our professor was involved. So we had technically five co-founders. It was a really robust group of co-founders which allowed us to really grow the business. In a cash flow positive way, actually, before even raising funds, so we bootstrapped the thing for five years before doing just a single round of financing anything, here’s the big pithy kind of cliche type of open ended question.

Henry Kaestner: Anything about God that you learned through your process of running a company and growing a company, exiting a company?

Ben Chelf: That’s just such a big question. It’s hard to come up with an answer to that question. But Faith Driven Entrepreneur.

Henry Kaestner: So let’s start with us. So you’ve got a bunch of partners. Yeah. And you’re out there. Any of them share your faith?

Ben Chelf: Yes. One of them in my first company did.

Henry Kaestner: Was prayer a part of what you did? Was your faith ever brought in a question? Did you sense that there’s a holy ambition of what you’re doing?

Ben Chelf: Yeah. So I’ll kind of describe a company one and company to the second company was in the entertainment industry and we were developing software and other tools for doing story development in a new way. And I would say with the first company, I was still in that mindset of sacred secular divide and plugged in a church service in junior high in ministry. Did my Bible study all the things that you would do? But at work there wasn’t much talk about that. And I felt like we should do a good job at work. I should build this business. Your question about what did you learn about God? It was so clear that God was just opening doors and providing opportunities. But what was interesting is as I got more wrapped up in that business and my identity was as Silicon Valley co-founder or founder or tech startup founder, from a character standpoint, I started putting God making God smaller and smaller. And it was more about me and me and my company and us and much to my own detriment, and took years to kind of realize that because it started small and then it kind of creeps up and creeps up. So while I think the work we were doing was good work for other people who were writing software, and there was certainly a care for those people and wanting to make their lives better that I could see God in and God blessing, I allowed my they didn’t get too wrapped up in that one. And so coming out of that experience and then thinking about what to do next and how to do it, I did kind of have a real come to Jesus moment for lack of a better way of putting it and saying, all right, Lord, I want to do better this next time or from an ongoing standpoint. And so how can I kind of keep the priorities straight? And so we built the second business a little bit different way and kind of made sure that from an identity standpoint, I didn’t have everything in me kind of wrapped up in that. And I tried to keep my identity where it was supposed to be.

Luke Roush: And how much gap between kind of company one and company two to one or more of your co-founders come over to Company two with you, or was that just a totally Denovo experience?

Ben Chelf: Yeah, totally start over from scratch and back, basically, because it was in the entertainment industry, I kind of left Silicon Valley. We built the business here, but it was much more of a Hollywood type of thing than it was a Silicon Valley type of thing. So we had different network of people, different co-founders. And it was about nine months from when I left, when I started having the inkling for the next company. And then another six months after that, when I kind of had the cool founding team and we got incorporated and off to the races.

Henry Kaestner: So when you talk about the second company being a little less about the secular spiritual divide and a little bit less like a smaller guy, just for fun, that a little bit. Tell me a little bit more about what that look like, and especially now as you work with Faith driven entrepreneurs through your work at Praxis, what does it look like to be more intentional about weaving your faith in.

Ben Chelf: Yeah, so I talk to some folks at church about a year ago on the intersection of faith and work or the integrating your faith into your work as I think is a common phrase. And the point I made there and this is you know, this is a bit of a bold statement, but bear with me. I said, look, if you’re trying to integrate your faith into your work, you’ve probably already missed it because it is not about this puzzle that you’re trying to, like, put the pieces together. It’s rather your faith should be so foundational to who you are and what you are and what you’re trying to do, that pretty much everything should flow from that. And that’s obviously an aspiration that Jesus did perfectly and we will never do perfectly. But I think that when we try to just start manipulating things or orchestrating is such a OK, I’m going to pray at this hour, during this day at work, because that’s how I’m integrating my faith into my work. I think we’ve we’ve kind of missed it.

And I’m learning these things through the years as well. I always say when I first started getting really intentional about integrating faith and work, it was a little bit more of that. It was like the Ben-Chelf-integration show as opposed to the Lord fueling everything that I do and giving me the energy and me being rooted in that and just letting the work be the work. And so I think one of my favorite verses is first. Thessalonians, five 17, pray without ceasing. I think it’s just an incredible concise call to the kind of relationships we’re supposed to have with the Lord, and that’s obviously not to me. We’re just on our knees talking to God 24/7, but rather the spirit of that continual communion that he is always present in every thought and everything we say and everything we do.

Luke Roush: So when you now as an investor at Omentum, when you work with portfolio companies, how do you counsel? What I hear you saying is that it’s not so much prescriptive sort of here is this tactic or that tactic, but it’s more descriptive of kind of where the heart posture and posture kind of indwelling of the Holy Spirit in somebody’s life. How do you counsel one of your business leaders in a direction that isn’t sort of some kind of a forced integration or both on spiritual integration, but actually kind of dwelling? How do you counsel them?

Ben Chelf: Yeah, good question. One of the things that I notice is that so much of the entrepreneurial journey, I mean, is the life journey is kind of about self-discovery. Entrepreneurs are constantly learning about their businesses, about market share, but about themselves in the process. And, you know, one of our founders, Christian Guy, was exposed to Praxis, became a Praxis fellow. And what it did is he got to see other Christians working out their faith in their businesses and their lives. And he kind of came back with this new excitement about faith that he hadn’t had previously and just could see how, you know, there could be a more holistic view of faith as it pertains to life and work and whatnot. And I simply told him, pay attention to that, pay attention to what you see in others and what you see, like in the energy that you have. You know, this brings to you to be considering, you know, the way or your faith can play out. And so I think a lot of it, in terms of counseling, to answer your question more directly, is pay attention to the work that God is doing in you and work on that more than anything else.

Henry Kaestner: So that’s some great counsel, particularly for those listeners that are angel investors working with entrepreneurs. I want to shift gears just a little bit and focus on a faith driven investor ministry a bit. And I want to turn back the clock to the beginning of faith driven investor. And there’s this working guy that maybe twenty five or thirty of us we’re all working on together, which is the sense of, well, you know, there’s probably a community out there of Christ followers that are in the investment world and venture capital and private equity. And what’s it look like? We come together to encourage each other to share best practices. And if we can do that, what’s a mission and a vision? What are the problems we’re trying to solve? Where are the things that we’re for? And in that, one of our hypotheses was that there wasn’t a lot of selection that at times we described the movement like walking into a Russian grocery store in the 1980s, and it’s not really a lot of product on the shelves. And what does it look like to get out there and to encourage the formation of other funds that are in real estate and private equity and public equity, domestic and overseas? And actually, interestingly, over the course of last 18 to 24 months, we found dozens and dozens of funds, some that already existed, a whole bunch that are new, always spiritual integration. But the problem that we really saw was that there wasn’t a lot of selection on the shelves. And I’ll never forget you looking at that and saying, nope, that’s not the problem. That’s not the problem. What do you mean it’s not the problem? You know, the people want to be intentional about how they store their capital and they want to be able to find funds that they’re going to be able to see some sort of chaplaincy or some sort of faith driven employee resource group kind of work into the fabric like, no, that’s not it. The formation, the foundation of the movement needs to be about something else. What was that something else?

Ben Chelf: It’s about the heart posture of the investor. It is about recognizing that God is constantly working on us, teaching us things, sanctifying us to use the big term.

And honestly, that’s all that’s required, paying attention to the way that the Lord is directing, being really intentional about looking for what God wants to teach you in any given moment, the way he wants to apply the gifts and talents and resources that he’s given to you, all the product on the shelf, all the different options. Look, there are tons and tons of ways, both, quote unquote, faith driven and not to deploy capital. And God can use all of it and God does use all of it.

And so I think if we just had Christians who are just 100 percent sold out to all right, Lord, I want my balance sheet to look exactly like you want it to look. I want my pencil to look exactly like you want it to look. I want my cash flow to look exactly like you want it to look. And I’m willing to sacrifice I’m willing to lay it all out there for you to teach me things and. Reallocate things according to what you need to teach me in any given moment, whether that be very safe positions like cash or more speculative things or more impact things, you know, he can lead us. And I think to the Lord, these are just the tools he uses to grow us closer to him and to love us, because that’s the bottom line. It’s about that relationship with him, his love for us and our response and love to him.

Luke Roush: Maybe share just a little bit about from your personal story. I mean, I think one thing that you and I have talked about previously is a loan that you made to a ministry in San Francisco, just kind of responding to the holy Crompton’s call, Holy Spirit’s prompting on your life, maybe shared just for a little bit on that.

Ben Chelf: Yeah, yeah. I want to keep the details vague enough for public distribution. Sure, sure. Sure.

But look, they’re going to be times where you take a look at a circumstance and there’s a clear need. And in this case, you know, it was an organization who, due to the circumstance, there was a threat to their real estate situation. Right. And they were renting before. And suddenly that was not going to be an option. They were going to get evicted unless they were able to purchase the property. And these things happened in this particular case, it happened very quickly because there was a family inheritance involved and there was another buyer lined up and so on.

And this was one of those cases where, you know, if you looked at it on paper and we talked to our quote unquote financial advisors, we talked to our financial advisors about it, and they said, now this is this is a little bit beyond the pale of what would be responsible just in terms of the size of the loan relative to our balance sheet. And but, you know, again, using the gifts that God had given me, I felt like I could do at least a cursory analysis of the business to determine if it was a reasonable loan. I’m not a banker. I don’t know how to underwrite loans technically. But, you know, I could do a little bit of math and do my own guess as to is this a fundable thing in the medium term if they had more time.

And so I sat down with the people of the organization and I looked at their books and I did the best I could. And my wife and I, we prayed about it and we just felt like God said, hey, you can help here, so help. And we structured a deal that, again, it was it was extra risk. Right. It was a risk that we didn’t need to take from a purely portfolio management standpoint. But we could help. And, you know, in this case, it was a happy ending. Right? We made them the kind of bridge loan they bought the building within. I think it was three or four months. They had a bank do a real mortgage. And so we were paid back and it was then we could just use that capital for something else. But yeah, I think as an example of just being open to things that go a little bit beyond the norms in terms of asset allocation. And honestly, we had to be prepared for it to end badly where either that capital got locked up or we ended up having to foreclose. I mean, there was all sorts of ways it could have gone wrong, but maybe a little bit on that, which is, I think in my own observations, is we can play things pretty safe where we can isolate ourselves from the mess.

That’s one temptation that wealth can afford, is ability to isolate ourselves and not take risk and not get in the messy details of relationship and life. And the Lord just wants us to be in community. He wants us to love and serve other people. And guess what? That’s messy. I guess there’s there’s risk in that. And so if you use your wealth to eliminate all risk, chances are you might not be all the way putting yourself into these relationships and a sacrificial mindset.

Luke Roush: Yes. What you’re speaking to just in that example, but also in what you were sharing earlier, is this idea of the entwining. The Holy Spirit in the context of business oftentimes needs to be unscripted. You know, we sometimes have a bunch of debate within our partnership and with others externally that are like, hey, you know, what are the programmatic elements that every one of your portfolio companies does to manifest scripture in the context of business operations? And we wrestle with that internally. We get pushed on it in some cases appropriately, externally, to understand what the KPIs are across the portfolio. But how do you think through just on the one hand, when it’s unscripted, it can feel mushy, it can feel kind of situational, can feel even like convenience. That’s really convenient, that it’s different for every company. But maybe just speak to how you’ve navigated that an element of.

Ben Chelf: Yeah, that’s a really hard one, and I’m lucky enough, the my partner is that element and we share the same faith. And so there’s a a trust element to each of our own discernment with respect to that, where our goal is to always use the intellectual capabilities, the rigor, the data, all the stuff that God has given us to make decisions, to use all of that and kind of intention with that sometimes is the kind of prompting of the Holy Spirit, the just like what is our gut telling us how we should operate from a faith perspective, we’ve seen it work a couple of ways where we’ll make an investment that we think has certain upside from a data standpoint. But it might be, say, 70 percent of what we would normally like to see. Right. But then there’s a strong spiritual component to it. Or we might make a decision to, in some sense, be a really good actor in an investing scenario and follow on rounds happen. And that’s not necessarily the best move financially, but it is the right thing to do. And what’s been interesting, and I’ve been at this with elements and for just over five years now is almost without fail when we feel like we’re quote on quote sacrificing or when we feel like we’re maybe conceding something, it turns out we’re actually not.

It turns out that ended up being the more financially savvy thing to do or the better upside thing to do. And I don’t know if that’s God blessing the decision or, you know, a lot of times just these ideas of love. Your neighbor work out to be really good business practices to.

Henry Kaestner: So, Ben, you’ve been an entrepreneur, you’re an investor, you’ve been involved with Praxis. You have an opportunity being where you live to just kind of reflect on what’s going on in the world. And because you’ve been really good at challenging us, as we have looked to with others, grow the movement. What are some of your reflections about what is broken and what might need to be redeemed about the investment, space and world? What would you like to see happen over the next five or 10 years? As you say, this is a healthier ecosystem, but maybe there’s too much in that because it maybe it’s the fact that maybe the ecosystem in the way that investors work with entrepreneurs isn’t broken or that it’s not healthy now. So maybe you think it is. But just what are your reflections on where you’d like to see the industry go and how people think about investing? Yeah. Is it broken? Is it not broken? What do you think?

Ben Chelf: There are a lot of broken things, that’s for sure. I think, honestly, one of the biggest ways that it’s broken is both investors and entrepreneurs are not brutally honest with themselves. I think having been an entrepreneur a couple of times, there’s a certain amount of optimism that you have to have. There’s this like almost blindness to reality, you have to say. Right. And that’s fine and good. Right.

That’s that’s why stuff gets started. Otherwise, nothing would ever get started. That being said, I think there are a lot of companies that just kind of meander along for and should just be cut off, should be done.

But for lack of on the part of both entrepreneur and investor, just being really honest about the opportunity and not being afraid of saying, hey, we tried, we could swing and we missed. They’re going to be other at bats. But in this one we took a swing and we missed. I think that’s one of the big things that’s broken. I think a lot of times in the faith driven world especially, we can be a little bit conflict avoidant. We can be afraid of that conversation because it might be seen as not the Christian thing to do, to just cut something off, especially if there’s a maybe an investor has a perspective. That’s right. That the entrepreneur doesn’t and says that or the other way around or the entrepreneur or the investors really want the entrepreneur to keep trying and giving, potentially providing more funding. And the entrepreneur knows it’s like, well, I guess I could, but it’s really just not going to work. I think that’s the biggest thing that I would love to see. Just more conversation about more honest rigor on both sides to try to address more specifically to the investor. I think the brutal honesty for investors is to just truly recognize where they have expertize to deploy capital and where they don’t. And that heart is great. But I did some angel investing before becoming a C, and there’s a big difference between investing as a hobby and investing as a profession. And, hey, look, it’s great to have hobbies and it can bust a lot of people with your hobbies. And we’ll talk about snowboarding in a minute. But yeah, I think to really be honest, OK, I invest because it’s a hobby. I have these objectives. And to recognize that there can be some danger as someone who deploys capital as a hobby for the companies you’re investing in. So those are some of the things that come to mind.

Luke Roush: So maybe just a couple of like with our name and. Names, specific examples where you feel like you’ve done a good job to speak the truth in love, right, because there’s a relationship, particularly if there’s a lot of faith between an investor and a company. Right. There’s a desire to kind of love them. Well, even when you’re telling them something that they don’t want to hear, any specific examples from your own experience, maybe just encourages with.

Ben Chelf: Yeah, look, we ended up kind of doing an asset sale of my second company, which from a financial standpoint wasn’t a home run that everybody was hoping for. And I think that’s an example where not to toot my own horn, but I think we did that well. We tried a number of different things, always in conversation with the investors. When my co-founder and I when we decided to wrap it up, it was a mutual decision between the two of us. Obviously, the staff was very sad. It was a very hard couple of months to do all of that and to end it as well as we could end. And then in the conversations with the investors, you know, obviously we’ve been keeping them appraised of everything through the years. And, you know, one of the key angel investors, when I asked him about it as we were wrapping up, after I kind of told him and look, I think it’s time to call it, he said, Ben, you tried everything you said you were going to try. You worked really hard at this for years and it didn’t work. I’m satisfied. Like you lost money and this wasn’t a Christian guy. So I think that’s kind of what I’m talking about is just that critical eye towards things. And, yeah, it’s not easy to do that. It’s harder, but it seems like the right thing to do.

Henry Kaestner: And as we come to a close here, I do want to hit on just a couple other things. One is the concept of Sabbath. And so, yes, we talked about snowboarding. Talk to us about seasons of Sabbath. Talk to us about what it looks like for somebody to worship their work. And just reflections on work versus Sabbath.

Ben Chelf: Yeah, I’m pro Sabbath. I think you took an incredible Sabbath Sabbath that I wish I was getting somewhere along the way. Yeah. So when I left my first company, I knew that I needed a break and not just I take a couple of weeks in Hawaii and then you’re better.

And so there is a whole confluence of things with respect to my girlfriend now wife that led to actually just having this time where I could be away. But I decided to move to the mountains, so I moved up to Tahoe for a winter. I’d snowboard for exactly one weekend in my entire life before I did this, but I decided I’m going to actually learn to snowboard. I’m a serial hobbyist. I love picking up hobbies and learning new things.

And so that winter, I just decided I’m going to spend three or four months learning to snowboard. I thought that was the primary goal of that time. But in reality, the primary goal of that time was for me to really connect with God in a much deeper and wonderfully holistic way, which was kind of born about I’m going back to honesty, me being really honest with God and airing some things that I had been thinking about for years that I had never really voiced to him or others in terms of my own wrestling with faith and why things were the way they were.

And much of what we’re talking about today in terms of my perspective on investing and faith driven investing and why it’s a hard posture thing was born out of that time in the mountains, going to snowboard every day. And so it’s kind of funny how the Lord uses uses our own wiring, our own desires to kind of catch us in different ways and teach us different things. But yeah, so I spent I guess it was four months living up in the mountains. It was really sabbat I mean I didn’t work at all. I mean unless you count getting up and going to the mountain to snowboard and try to learn. My time was cut short by a couple of weeks when I dislocated my shoulder, taking a jump too high in the park, but otherwise it was an amazing time.

And so my own view on the Sabbath, and that’s a very long winded way of getting to that. But my own view of Sabbath is it is not one of balance. I think people will talk about balance like, OK, I want to have good balance in my life of work and rest. I don’t think that’s quite it.

I think there’s a certain intensity to seasons that require just being all in starting companies is so hard that the idea of, oh, I’m going to have two or three hours every day carved out to rest or I’m going to have a full day, a week carved out to rest. It just might not happen. I might regret saying that on a podcast, but I think looking at the balance of a month or a year or whatnot, and if you can’t identify the places where you stopped to rest, like the Lord stopped to rest after creating the universe, then something’s off. Right. And so I think for me, what that’s look like practically, it’s meant three kids. Everything is a little different now that I have a couple little kids. But pre kids, it was at least one ten day period every year where I had no outside communication, no Internet, nothing like that, completely unplugged for ten days. That was kind of the yearly rhythm for me. And from a daily rhythm standpoint, I have when the season affords. I’m a big fan of Friday night after work to Sunday afternoon after church, kind of that window being the key either unplugged time or you’re really trying to let your mind rest from other things. For me, a lot of it has to do with digital connectivity. If I’m on email or on my phone, that’s not restful. I think that’s another thing for Sabbath is you really have to figure out what is rest. A lot of people will flip on Netflix, myself included, or browse the Internet on your phone or you kind of have these rest ish things that aren’t actually rests.

So when you’re going to take the time to Sabbath, I’d say actually take it, even if it’s just going to be a few hours on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon. But yeah. So those are some thoughts.

Henry Kaestner: So I’m grateful for you. I’m grateful for what you have taught us and our listeners about our posture. It’s become really the anchor bedrock value is we talk about faith driven investing. If you’re a listener to this, it is about heart posture. Faith driven investing is not prescriptive, non presumptuous. There are all sorts of different things you can do across now, all asset classes, all different types of geographies to really have spiritual integration. And even a gospel proclamation is a part of the investments that you make. And yet it’s about our posture. It’s about getting down on your knees, as Ben did with Cam back after an exit and just saying, God, how would you have us use the resources you’ve given us for your glory? What does that look like? And you may come out of that experience. Out of that exercise. Out of that time with God and feel that you are absolutely called to invest in solar farms in the Nevada desert, and that is equally valid, of course, then somebody who wants to invest in entrepreneurs in Africa or Eastern Europe or whatever, fill in the blanks. Ultimately, it’s about an opportunity to participate in the work that God is doing the world and commune with him. And so then you early on were very helpful to get us grounded in that and speak in the movement. So thank you. One of the things the thing rather, that we like to do is we close out every episode is to ask our guests what they’re hearing from God in his word recently. How do you feel that God is speaking to you now? Maybe it’s something this morning, though. It truly doesn’t need to be. It could be over, of course, last week, over the course of last month. But what do you hear God speaking to you now?

Ben Chelf: Yeah, it’s always such a good question. I’m working on kind of a new experience for Bible reading and leave it at that. It’s still kind of under wraps and in development, but I’ve been tinkering a lot. So my desk is full of wires and gadgets and all that stuff about reading scripture. Yeah, well, you can’t tell us about it. Yeah.

Among other things, maybe in like six months when I get a kick started going, I’ll tell you about it or we’re going to look at this seriously.

Yeah, exactly.

So I’m in full on tinkering mode right now, which is fun. And again, like I said, I always have a hobby. I always have something I’m working on inside and I’m using some twenty three is kind of the text that I’m testing with a lot. So I’ve been looking at Psalm 23 every day the last couple of weeks, and in verse three there is a phrase that’s just says he restores my soul and that phrase is just kind of really resonated with me.

That is the promise. If you put your faith in God, that makes all the anxiety and the things we worry about and the world. And what a year, right? This last year with everything that’s gone on. But he restores my soul and it speaks to the brokenness. Right. We only restore things that need to be restored, that have some sort of brokenness. It speaks to the simplicity of it. And so, yeah, I’ve just been relishing those four words this week. He restores my soul.

Henry Kaestner: That is awesome. That’s very good. That’s a very good word. Look, how come we don’t have been on every week?

Ben Chelf: I think we should. I think we should, actually.

Luke Roush: So, Ben, thank you so much for taking time. Grateful for your insight. I always find your perspectives to be helpful and informed and reflective of just a lot of contemplation on your end and listening to what God is telling you. So grateful for your friendship and grateful for your insights. I think our listeners really enjoy it. Thanks, Ben.

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Today’s guest is Eric Kim, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Goodwater Capital. As early investors in Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, and others Eric and his team know a thing or two about the tech startup world. 

But that’s not the limit of Eric’s expertise. He’s done some great thinking about what spiritual integration looks like in their firm and how his faith guides him as he’s part of stewarding a portfolio of over a billion dollars. We’ll let you hear the rest from him…

Episode Transcript

Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Henry Kaestner: Everybody gets the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. We’re glad you’re back. Today’s guest is Eric Kim, co-founder and managing partner of Goodwater Capital. As early investors and Facebook, Twitter, Spotify and others, Eric and his team know a thing or two about the tech startup world. But that’s not the limit of Eric’s expertize. He’s done some great thinking about what spiritual integration looks like and their firm and how his faith guides him as he’s part of stewarding a portfolio of over a billion dollars. I’ll let you hear the rest of it from him.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Investor podcast. Today is super cool for me because we’re on with a good friend of mine, a guy that I’ve been able to be in in a Bible study and community group of sorts over the course of the last couple of years.

A number of us who are serious about our Christian faith and who got his place in the world of investing have gotten together just to encourage and challenge each other in our pursuit of knowing God and honoring him through our vocations. And it’s with Eric Kim that we’ve got today on the call and been looking for this podcast for a while. Eric, thank you very much for joining Henry.

Eric Kim: And Tim, thanks so much for having me. That’s a real honor and a blessing to be here with you on your listenership today. Appreciate it.

Henry Kaestner: So we have a love that is the official title for listenership that esteems our audience, which needs to be esteemed. Awesome. People were celebrating the fact that we’re now and something like seventy five different countries. But it’s been super encouraging to hear people come back in with great feedback and just great affirmation. So thanks for acknowledging that. And one of the things that you probably know and everybody in our listener base knows is that we like to hear the stories, the personal stories of the people that are on an episode with us. We want to get into some really neat things about the mission and the vision and values and how you think about things like a shadow mission. Today, we’re going to find out what in the world is a shadow mission. And then we’re also going to find out a little bit about the role that consumer technology plays in this post, covid or current covid world. But tell us about who you are, where you come from. And then in the mix of that, I want to know, what is your favorite piece to play on the show?

Eric Kim: Oh, I love it. Thanks for bringing that up. Well, guys, again, it’s just an honor. A pleasure to be here with you all.

So my parents immigrated from South Korea to New York City in the early 70s, which is where I was born when I was quite young. I moved to St. Louis, Missouri, where there weren’t a lot of Koreans where I grew up. I was there through high school. I grew up as a pretty serious musician and went to Yale for undergrad, actually, initially as a music major. And it was actually at Yale where I experienced the power of consumer technology and faith.

And a really interesting way when I was a senior, 9/11 happened. And I think everyone will remember where they were when they heard about the atrocity that happened. And for me, it was particularly painful. I had interned at a hedge fund that had some brokerages associated with it that were completely wiped out by what happened on 9/11, hit particularly close to home, being on the East Coast at that time and during that experience learned about the power of music and technology and community, because we came together as a group to host these benefit concerts. And I was a cellist on campus and we pulled together other groups in the way we advertised through that was through social media, kind of the version of that back then. What was social media where these kind of chat boards and I see a key messenger kind of environment and we advertise these benefit concerts. We saw the community, the network effects of getting the word out.

What inspired that kind of action at that time was kind of a rediscovery of my faith during college. And I talk about it later.

But a number of really influential kind of forces in my life at that time, everything from Campus Crusade for Christ to grab as a Catholic to St. Thomas Moore Chapel on campus as well. And by that ecumenical dialog and being at the intersection that really forfour. He had a really interesting kind of faith calling to come to service, and I bring up the 9/11 example because that carried with me throughout my career, going to McKinsey, working on a couple of startups, working at a large fund called Maverick, but ultimately feeling call to start with Tiwa, my co-founder in 2014, Goodwater Capital, which we believe is a value space to faith driven, purpose driven venture capital firm, which we’ll talk more about. But again, myself in a nutshell, kind of Midwest kid that now is here in Silicon Valley to try to do what we can do through venture investing to have a positive impact on the world.

Henry Kaestner: So if I remember a bit and we didn’t talk about this in the conversation leading up to the podcast, but if I remember back to 2014 and I had known to for a while, but it just started to meet you, there’s a faith story and how you guys got together. Can you share that?

Yeah, you know, there is a number, but God just kept having us meet each other.

Kind of it was serendipitous kind of flukes of nature at the beginning, but we would literally start running into each other. And we are obviously friends before. And we had gone to business school over fifteen years ago together at Stanford GSB, because when you’re ahead of me and then kind of as we were both thinking about starting our own separate firms at that time, God just found ways to bring us together. I remember one day at the Rosewood Hotel, kind of quintessential, you know, Silicon Valley shock.

William Norvell: And you ran into him there. I can’t believe I at the Rosewood.

Eric Kim: I know. I know. But it was like kind of in the thick of both of us thinking about an entrepreneurial venture. He was at Kleiner at the time. I was at Mavericks at the time.

And we had just had a conversation before. And like literally within that, I don’t know. Twenty four to 72 hour, we met again and then had another serendipitous conversation about, hey, what would it look like to start a firm together? And we kept doing that. And then the number of stories around the investors that we would literally meet at the airport that got delayed because the plane got delayed, you know, and then we happened to sit down at the same pizzeria. They were kind of these countless very serendipitous things that happened and, you know, couldn’t help but think that, you know, God’s kind of handprints were all over that in many ways. But it was really cool to see how that came together very organically at the beginning.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, I remember that she was doing something about it, really endeavoring understand how to go proceed. And as he was doing that, all of a sudden out of the blue, you called and it was just really cool, made a real impression on him. And you guys have grown together and grown. Have fun now that I think is past the billion dollars of assets under management. So God has blessed your partnership and it gives you a lot of success. Your fund that focuses on consumer technology taught us a bit about what it is that you guys do in the fund and bring it into today’s environment. Why is what you do particularly important today?

Eric Kim: Yeah, so our stated mission when we started in 2014 was to empower exceptional entrepreneurs who are changing the world. And our focus area is just consumer technology. We don’t do enterprise, SAS, security, hardware, biotech, all.

We do our digital horizontal platforms that touch the consumer directly.

And so whether that’s financial services, health care, education, online grocery marketplaces, video communications. Kiwa was an investor in Facebook and Twitter prior to joining him. I Goodwater I was an investor in Kakao Talk, part of Goodwater, which now has ninety nine percent penetration as a messaging app in South Korea.

And you can go into our company there. There’s something very unique about the power of, again, horizontal digital platforms that have network effects that every time a net new user joins in the power of that platform becomes stronger. So whether that’s a Netflix, a Spotify, telemedicine companies, financial services, fintech companies, peer peer payments, one more one more user comes into that community or that app. The whole gets stronger and that’s all we do. I could water the entire billion dollar plus of the assets we manage is just focusing on empowering exceptional entrepreneurs who are changing the world through consumer technology because consumer technology touches billions of lives on a day to day basis, if not hour to hour basis. Whether we like it or not, we are in front of these digital platforms almost every living minute of the day. And so when we think about our mission, our calling, our purpose, we wanted to focus all our energy into what we think is one of the most powerful forces from a secular perspective in the world, which is consumer tech. So we’ve been in early investors in a company called Musically, which is now called Tech Talk, which is Superfriends. Enter the news these days. And we’ve been in other companies as well, you know, all kind of stuff or more questions on this topic and love to explore any area. But I will just leave by saying a lot of those companies end up being fairly controversial also. So what? It’s Facebook about privacy, to talk about privacy or, you know, when and how should telemedicine be adopted or what’s the privacy or the security around fintech platforms?

We as a value investor, actually want to be in the thick of those conversations. We want to be right where the rubber meets the road with regards to secular innovation and where consumer behavior is changing, because we think that even if we change the trajectory of this company by one degree, we will have tremendous impact, hopefully.

So that’s where we’re focused as of today.

Henry Kaestner: So I think that that’s something a lot of people don’t think about. And so many people think of the role when they invest in private equity funds as being a passive player in an overall trend. But the reality is, is that when you come alongside an early investor and get a board seat, you’re now a partner. You have a voice at the table. And you’re right, consumer technology is a wonderful thing. We all use it to be able to have people who are speaking into the lives of the entrepreneurs to encourage them, but then also appropriately challenge them. Is there an example that you might be able to offer up over the course of the last several years, if necessary? You can leave the name out of it where there is this kind of ethical kind of fork in the road where the CEO of a consumer technology company is trying to say, we see an opportunity here, but your sense of values and faith driven, this tries to encourage them in a different direction.

Eric Kim: Yeah, that there are several points to a couple. I’ll start by stating our core values, which today are humility, integrity, transparency, quality, service. And then we’ve added a six one justice and we could talk more about that. But it’s through these lens that first we make it really, really almost painstakingly clear to our entrepreneurs before they sign up to partner with us that those are the values that we’re about. So if you want someone in your cap table that has those values, we’ll work with you day and night through those lenses. I would say, particularly with regards to consumer technology in this day and age. One of the things we’re really passionate about that has come up, frankly, time and time again.

It’s come up before I started. Goodwater, it’s ever more present today is the production of children on these platforms and whether it’s pornography, whether it’s addiction, whether it’s child pornography itself, it’s again, something that is near and dear to a lot of our hearts as parents and as family members, frankly. And we see it. It was something that there was a major platform that we were associated with. I can’t name it, but we had to really pound the table with regard to changing our growth trajectory, sacrificing some initial growth to make sure we safeguarded the children that would potentially be in the audience itself. And it comes up time and time again. But I think what is surprising and not trying to toot my own horn, we fall short in so many ways, but is that we are usually the sole voice pounding the table about these issues. And again, these companies netnet may be seen, but actually is very controversial or very, you know, potentially gray in some areas.

But what we often think about is if it’s not good or who else should sit in that void to make sure there is a voice of values in some of those situations.

So, yeah, it’s come up. It comes up and particularly around the protection of children is something that we’re seeing and we’re quite sensitive to.

Henry Kaestner: Well, as a dad, thank you for that. And William, your dad of a young child as well. So I know that, you know, was one thing when my children are a little bit older, 14, 16 and 18. And that is something that’s absolutely front and center. But you’re investing also in the companies. They’re going to be the leaders in consumer technology in the future to sit that out. When you do have that conversation with the entrepreneur and you’re pounding the table, do they wonder why is you can say, actually, you know, we’ve got this kind of moral compass that comes from something about who we are? What does that look like about why you’re pounding the table or you judge judging or versus that’s a unique opportunity to witness. And yet I shouldn’t be prescriptive even in the asking the question about how that manifests itself. But tell us more about you being the sole person pounding on the table and being completely different than the rest.

Eric Kim: Yeah, I think it comes down to mission and purpose and really getting at the roots of it. And now you mentioned shadow mission, but often we’ll come back to speaking into the hearts and the hearts already there for these entrepreneurs. They want to do intrinsically something really positive for the role. That’s why they risked everything to become an entrepreneur to begin with. But speaking into that side of it. Right. And aligning around what is that remember back what was that original mission you started this company for? It was for the purpose of serving X or Y. What was that original purpose? And as opposed to kind of what I would call often is the shadow mission. And this is popularized by John Ortberg. And John, if you’re listening, I’m praying for you, buddy, and we’ve never met. But you bless me immensely as you. But.

Henry Kaestner: The people you have ever met, senior Pastor Amen, the church here in the Bay Area, great man of God.

Eric Kim: Absolutely. But this message around a mission, I think, is actually where there is light and where there’s an entrepreneur’s kind of intrinsic nature to want to do good. And then on the other side of that is the desire to be on the cover of Forbes is to be a billionaire, is to have growth and to break all these records and to have kind of the accolade associated with it. And if we bring it back, each speaking into it is not from a moralistic perspective like this is wrong or this is right is I actually remember why you started this company to became let’s remember that real mission and take everything else aside. Take aside the case study that you want written about you take aside all the accolades that you want to take, aside the pay and think back about that mission. And that is, I think when the heart becomes most vulnerable for them and we can speak into it and whether they know we’re our faith and we’re not shy about it, we don’t necessarily advertising on our sleeves either.

But it invariably does come up in almost every conversation with the entrepreneurs we work with. I think they understand where it comes from and where it becomes real for them. Whether they are faith or not is that they have this underlying mission, which I believe God has blessed them with, and then speaking it to that and tying it to the reality that they’re faced with to make sure they’re making that choice because they can serve one or two missions in that moment.

William Norvell: Yeah, it’s so good. So good. I actually heard that sermon like eight years ago and it has changed my life and ascended to so many people. It’s just amazing to think about, you know, go in one direction. And then you have, you know, he talks about how you can just be five degrees off. Right. So a lot of times people think you’re 180 degrees off and that’s how you you know, you see your way off the path. But in reality, it’s usually just a little bit you know, you’re probably using the gifts that God’s given you. You’re probably doing all the things pretty close to it, but you’re just doing it for a little different reason. He talks about giving a sermon. He’s like, that’s what I’m gifted to do. That’s what God give me to do, is that in my shadow mission is every day I go to sleep and I wake up and I hope it says amazingly good looking, eloquent man gives incredible sermon once again, right?

Eric Kim: Yeah, it’s. Yeah. Just those few degrees off. But in an extreme sense, the articulation a few degrees off. But those few degrees are in the direction of how and how does that manifest itself for you.

William Norvell: What do you feel like you wrestle with as you were thinking through that paradigm?

Eric Kim: Yeah, I thank you for asking that. You know, when we started in twenty fourteen, Tiwa and I looked at each other and said, this is not my firm, this is not a year for this is God’s firm and kind of made that sacred vow to begin with and had that really strong misalignment.

And I think that what is the shadow mission for all of us.

I’ll speak for myself being as an investor, of being someone that you measure yourself based on the investments you make your track record. Right. The multiple and the IRR that you have created, the wealth you have created for others, take a lot of pride in that.

And I think that the shadow mission is to, as a firm or as an individual investor is to be a billionaire, to raise a certain X amount of funds, to be on a list, to get kind of the accolade associated with that track record that you establish. And when we started, the firm firms like there was never a mission to create a track record. It was to have impact.

And so I think that is the constant battle. And what I love about how Ortberg popularized the notion of a shadow mission is that it’s not to say we’re going to all just be pure and wash ourselves or this is just to say it’s part of us. It is there. We can’t just cut it off.

It’s really acknowledging because part of my pride and my ego is to be the best in investing is to have the best rapper is to be one of the most successful venture capitalists. I know it.

It’s there. But naming it and making sure that that is not what I’m feeding on a day in, day out basis is so important.

But unless I name it up front and understand that that is my kind of natural tendency, I think that is really what has preserved our partnership, which is really important that Goodwater and actually helped it blossom because we’re not looking towards our own self fulfillment. We’re really looking towards the fulfillment of the mission itself. Now, we fall short all the time. I want to be really clear. It is so hard. Right. And it’s just like those magical moments when a brother like Henry with our Christian Accountability Venture Capital Group, you know, can hold you accountable to some of these things and to check your ego. And again, it’s just that constant battle that we’re in that I would just again, encourage everyone who might be listening to this. Like just what is that shadow mission of yours from the investment or from a secular business perspective?

And name it, don’t be afraid of it, but name it in the hopes that you can sometimes check it at just those crucial moments.

Henry Kaestner: I want to dove into that a little bit more because you’re on to something there that, of course, plays all of us as Christ, not just us as fund managers. It’s riffing on Proverbs 16, two and twenty one to all of a man’s ways seem pure to him, but his motives are weighed by the Lord. And every time I read that, I am so incredibly convicted and I have these shadow missions and the danger, if you have some level of success in the world and especially the Christ followers, that you can pretty much justify almost everything you’re doing in terms of trying to create value and trying to participate. And much that might be true. But you might have this 80 percent of what you’re doing can absolutely be defended as I’m investing for the flourishing of society. But when selfishness or the approval of others kind of seep in, it takes us further away from God. And so you’re doing and through the work of John Ortberg. But what you’re really showing here is that you have endeavored what you want just to be that much more conscious of it in the humility that comes with that. Let me just say that that’s different from what you hear from the typical Sandhill Road venture capitalist.

Eric Kim: I have to just thank you, Henry, in particular, because you’ve been a great mentor to me. And I go back and remember one of the most impactful things you said to me, which I think applies to anyone, regardless of where you might be on a wealth scale or where you are in life.

But the metaphor holds true.

And you said to me, Eric, never get liquid because you may have seen, I think, in some other folks lives just what happens when folks achieve some success in the notion of equity. Again, doesn’t matter where you are a scale, that notion is that you suddenly have like this freedom to just do whatever you want because you’ve got this kind of accumulated currency of here on Earth. You can just do whatever you want. And certainly it pertains to the wealthy. And I think it pertains to everyone just kind of mentally from a currency of feeling in need and on our knees for Christ and on our knees because we realize how dependent we are on the Lord and then going to being in a quote unquote, liquid situation. Where to your point, I do whatever we want. I got the resources I can hop on this plane. I can maybe get this really nice kind of luxury item here or things like that. And I’m not saying nice things are bad, not by any means. But at the same time, what happens is we’re disconnected. We’re going from not just being part of this world, but being of this world in that moment. And I just remember back when you told me about that, it’s just like a conversation we can all have and be very real about like what does that mean for us? You know, whether I’ve accumulated that like an extra few bucks through the stock market as a couple bucks a couple of weeks, like, does that suddenly change your mental state somehow and your attitudes towards the Lord and God? And I think particularly it’s just something we have to really be mindful in being in the investment world.

Henry Kaestner: I completely agree. That was very encouraging what you said. I need to give credit for that to Jim Bowen, who is the founder and CEO of First Trust Portfolios, a very early investor in Bano.

On the personal side, he just had set on a ministry board with David and came on board and we went out and met with him and he said, guys? And he dressed and looked a lot like Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko character in Wall Street. I’ll never forget. He said, never get liquid. I’ve seen it just destroy families. And on the flip side of that, and there’s the cautionary side, the investor that I look to as a mentor, just an incredible class act, really godly man. It’s a guy named Tom Darden. And Tom ran and continues to run Cherki Partners, two and a half billion dollars worth of real estate assets and huge land holdings in India and other places like that, really the best in the world. And what he does, which is to renovate what are called Brownfield’s real estate that has some sort of oil damage or something like that. And Tom rides a bike to work. He has immense wealth. But one of the things that really grounds him is not just his faith, but the fact that he is never liquid. Every single time he has any type of liquidity, he’s investing in the next entrepreneur that comes around. He has hundreds of investments and different technologies that are really making a difference in the world. And he does it every cent whenever they go public, he immediately sells the stock, not immediately. But he’ll tell you, you know, he looks for an opportunity, sell stock and then put it in another investor. And as a result, he never has the liquidity around him to think about buying another yacht. And in the process, because he’s investing in illiquid assets, either a private equity or venture capital fund like you all have, or an individual angel investments, he’s really creating part of the fabric of the enlargement of society. So thanks for having said that as encouragement to me, but I need to give credit to Jim Bowen and then to the guy, his model that out for me, Tom Dart also.

William Norvell: Let’s get. I usually steal John shuttle mission statement, but you already knew about it, so I can’t take credit for it. You’re like the one guy that listen to the deep tracks and, you know, really upsets me. ERG, I want to take one step back. You mentioned a phrase kind of in passing, but I think especially for our audience. Want to go. You said you were faith driven, venture capital firm. You know, and I know we’ve gone around the world a little bit on what that could mean in certain situations. But I want to give you a chance just to maybe from the highest level say, what does that mean to you? Do you look at investments differently? Do you work with your entrepreneurs differently, 100 different things? Do you work with your team differently? Just what does that mean to you? In the essence? Because I think there’s a lot of people listening that either are that or want to be that. And I think you have a really unique lens on what that means.

Eric Kim: Yeah, it’s evolving for us. And in 2014, we launched with this mission of empowering entrepreneurs who are changing the world and did everything we could to serve that mission in 2020. Amidst the pandemic of covid-19, amidst the pandemic of racism, which continues to burn across our nation and world, we added a sixth value of justice to our five preexisting values. And the reason I bring this up is that I would say that we launch in 2014 with our mission in 2020. I feel like we reemphasize or rediscover our purpose itself, and that is to bring justice and healing to the world. Again, the notion of justice is that being inspired by Michael six, eight, how do we bring justice to the world? And I think that is again, where the rubber meets the road for us. That is how we try to measure ourselves as being a corporate faith driven venture capital firm or being leaders of faith leading a venture capital firm. I think those are almost synonymous or I would hope they could be. I hope that who I am on Sunday is the same as who I would be on a Wednesday or Friday. And so that, I think is through the lens of are we really bringing justice to the world? We look at investments through that lens in the consumer techland. Is this really going to bring justice of some sort to the world? We recently looked at a company bringing telemedicine to the mental health space and it’s frankly heartwarming. Inspirers reinspire us every time we meet an entrepreneur that is so mission oriented and it aligns with his value of justice that we can actually bring some kind of healing to the world itself through our investments. It also makes us think a lot about our Elche base. We’ve been, as Henry mentioned, really, really fortunate to be at the scale we are in six years and.

Thinking about where do we take capital from, are they values align? Do they also align with our desire to positively impact the world? And it’s not just lip service, but something they’re willing to, you know, go to battle on our behalf for and then certainly our employees. I think that we’re a team of about 30 folks here in Burlingame. And how do we think about who we hire? Are they values aligned? And do they share this maniacal desire to change the world for the better? And I think that is our current manifestation. I think this will probably change and mature. But right now we feel like we’re in the thick of the battle right now. And so when we prioritize the various meanings of what a quote unquote, future of an investor could be in our current state, the current chapter in what we’re prioritizing is should be on the front line of really trying to push this impact, to bring justice, to bring healing to the world. That is kind of what is driving us right now and what we’re prioritizing within the spectrum of what that could mean. And then we’re doing it through our investments. We’re doing it through the people we hire and to help capital that we take on.

William Norvell: It’s amazing. That’s an amazing articulation of what that means to you guys and really appreciate that.

And your whole team would think that comes to mind as I try to get a little practical at some level.

As you know, a lot of people here are doing investments and obviously names don’t need to be included in this at all. Could you maybe walk us through a few investments that didn’t meet that criteria?

You know, companies that you saw that you said, I mean, gosh, if we weren’t us to invest in that, that’s going to make a lot of money and it’s going to be a success. And, you know, we may get a call about that from one of our LPs that ask you better have a good reason for passing on that one.

Eric Kim: You know, if this comes up for us in the financial services space quite a bit. So if you think about fintech companies broadly and Henry and I at William with you as well, we have been co-investors in some wonderful fintech companies that are really bringing kind of the banking to the unbanked, if you will, or bringing the access to the financial services, to the broader community, which is wonderful. I think where we’ve said no flat out to certain investments is where we feel like it’s taking an unfair break from the consumer with regards to lending, with regards to some of the interest rates that are being applied, there are rules of consumer protection out there already around what you can charge. But there are companies that get around it, I would say, through some questionable practices. And so that’s something where we have felt like this is a huge business opportunity and it’s very subjective. Right. My view of it is going to be very biased. But what’s quote unquote fair? What’s a fair interest rate to charge someone, for example? That’s what it comes down to ultimately. And I think that’s where, again, the perspective of the entrepreneurs become really clear about what side they are on in terms of where they would like to take things for the U.S. to maximize kind of short term profits, because it’s, again, very easy to justify. Well, if they were going to the black market or to some really suspicious kind of lending sources, it’s better than that. But those companies are in a position to both profit, but also to good to provide better services. I think where we’ve seen this really come in to answer your question directly, is in the lending space, sometimes we’ve had to say, you know, it’s just not worth it because it’s going to be very high, profitable company. But these practices just seem unfair. And again, I know it’s subjective, but that’s just how we feel about those situations.

William Norvell: No, that’s true. Yeah, absolutely. That’s super helpful. And yeah, unfortunately, God didn’t lay venture capital in Romans anywhere right now. There is some things you got to pray about and then you may come to a different conclusion than another investor sometimes.

Yeah. Who’s also driven by their faith. But staying close to you and what do you feel called to do is so unique and what inspires everybody, I think to figure out their own story as we unfortunately come to a close. One of the things we love to do is see how God’s word can transcend between our guest and our listeners. And we find it amazing to see how we hear from people that, you know, they just needed that verse today from that other person’s life and the intertwining of stories. And so what I’d ask you is, if you’d be so generous to share where God has you in his word, whether that is something you read today, something you’re in this season. Michael Jackson. I heard it could be that could be something else just to be great.

Eric Kim: Yeah. Thank you. And there were two things that came to mind when I was thinking about joining you today. And I think that the first is it’s just the Sermon on the Mount.

So take any part of that. But I think what I am constantly impacted is blessed are the. Or and what does that mean for us? I kind of purposely I’m calling this off because we’re in venture capital and kind of in this secular tailwind of investing and things are going up into the right and all these things.

But what does it mean to be blessed are the poor? And I would say that is something that that can mean a lot of different things for different people. For me, it’s to be poor in all things. But Christ. And I think that is just something that I hope that people can reflect about today, and obviously we’ve got a lot going on as a world politically and with the pandemic in among whatever state we’re in, we can be both kind of very sexually rich and also secondly, poor, but still not poor in the way that was being talked about in that survey. And how can we keep our hearts to really be rich in Christ and just to be enriched and Christ alone. So hopefully that makes some sense to folks and just kind of something that’s really top of mind for me.

Henry Kaestner: That’s beautiful. Thank you very much for that. And thank you for your time today. This is why we do this podcast, as you are talking about how you thought through the concept of shared ambition, how you able to listen to a sermon from a pastor and say, what does that mean in terms of my life and what does that mean for my fund, my partnership, my relationship with our peers and new companies to think about the holy ambition that you can have and being a technology investor and how to be able to shape culture and be able to mentor and lead entrepreneurs that are trying to understand what is their value base, what is their north star? Can they pick any North Star or is there actually a one and only one North Star? What does that look like? Your ability to faithfully and wouldn’t similarly witness to that in a very secular world is really outstanding, is unparalleled, and it’s why we do this podcast.

Thank you for sharing your story and it’s been awesome to see your success. And I love you. Also, just as we close out, just the way that you guys got back together at the beginning of the year and said, OK, let’s revisit our vision of values, are we missing anything and let’s celebrate the success we’ve had. And to a certain extent, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And you’ve had a lot of success. But how do we get sharper and how do we pray together about how God would use this fund in our lives? And that’s super encouraging. So thank you.

Eric Kim: Thank you so much. Such a blessing to be with you all today. My partner is listening to this. I just want to call my my brother Kiwa sharpens me every day and again with other folks around us has really been just so instrumental, got used to actually in my life. And I just want to say I love you, brother, and thank you.

Thank you so much for joining us on today’s show. We’re very, very grateful for the opportunity to serve the larger faith driven investor community. Hey, the best way for you to stay connected is to sign up for our monthly newsletter at Faith Driven Investor Dog. And while you’re there, we, of course, want to hear from you. We derive great joy from interacting with many of you. And it’s been very rewarding to see people join the discussion now from all around the world. But it’s also very important to us that you feel like this is your show and that you’ll help make it something that best equips you on your journey, one that you’re proud of and one that you’ll share with others.

This podcast, it wouldn’t be possible without the help from many of our friends. Executive producer Justin Formate Program Director Johnny Wil’s Music by Karl Carl Chigwell. You can see and hear more of his work that summer, Drugstore.com and Audio and editing by Richard Bahle of Cornerstone Church in San Francisco.

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Marcus Stroud’s story is one you might not even believe as you hear it. He experienced ups and downs as his life intersected with people like President Barack Obama and MLB All-Star Torii Hunter. 

There was a time when he lived in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Dallas, and times when he was homeless. And while you’re going to have to hear the details from Marcus himself, one thing you won’t miss is the faith, perseverance, and sheer tenacity that Marcus shows in all aspects of his life, including his work at TXV Partners, which he’ll share more about today. 

Episode Transcript

Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome to the feature of an investor podcast. If you’re a fund manager, investor or financial adviser, are driven by your faith or want to be driven by your faith, then you’re in the right place. The best way to stay connected in the faith driven investor community is to sign up for our newsletter, Faith Driven Investor ERG. This podcast doesn’t exist without you, our community. One of the things we’ve heard the community asks for is help in finding great deals to invest in. And so we’ve launched Marketplace. It’s a new platform of funds and direct deals, everything from private equity and real estate funds. That’s from philanthropic to market rate deals made in the U.S. in emerging markets. Check it out. At the age of an investor ERG for slash marketplace. While you’re there, please send us any thoughts you have about how this podcast might better serve you or any questions you have about being a faith driven investor.

All opinions expressed on this podcast, including your team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guest may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific investment advice for any individual or organization.

Hey, everybody gets the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. We are so happy you’re here. Marcus Stroud story is one you might not even believe as you hear it. He experienced the ups and downs as his life intersected with people like President Barack Obama and MLB all star Tory Hunter. There was a time when he lived in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Dallas and times when he was homeless. And while you’re going to have to hear the details from Marcus himself, one thing you won’t miss is the faith, perseverance and sheer tenacity that Marcus shows in all aspects of his life, including his work at TV Sex Partners, which will share more about today. I’ll let him take it from here. Let’s listen in.

Welcome back to the future of an Investor podcast. We’ve got a special guest with Marcus Stroud today. And as you’ve probably gathered, this is the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast podcast where we look at sharing stories about people are really making an impact in the larger faith driven investment movement. And just as a quick recap, as you undoubtedly come to understand, there’s a new model of investing. The old model had been that a Christian might take all their assets and put up here on the left hand. If you could see what I’m doing right now up on my left hand, make as much money as you possibly can. And then to the extent you understand the biblical message of generosity, you give it away on the right hand side. And a collection of us, a movement of us have come to understand that the very process of putting investment capital to work might accomplish the same types of ministry goals that we otherwise had done and are giving. And we don’t have to give up market return to do that. We can do that across geographies, asset classes, different return profiles from market return to gospel, catalytic and in that big player, of course, our funds and private equity funds. And they tend to find themselves in two different categories. One are people who have been fund managers for a long time, many of whom have worked at some really established secular funds and are bringing their faith to work, bringing things like chaplaincy and with their portfolio. And there’s another breed of fund manager that’s coming out, seen a problem and an opportunity in the marketplace, taking some of their background, some of their drive and their passion and starting a new fund, doing it with spiritual integration at the core of what they’re doing. And this interview that we have with Marcus is in that latter category, somebody starting a fund with a great background, great intentionality. Some things we think are super unique and just overall. Great story. So, Marcus Stroud, welcome to the program.

Marcus Stroud: Thanks for having me. Thank you, guys. Big fan of the program and really excited to be here.

Thank you. Thank you. So we’re going to get right into what you do. You work at Tsvi, but before we do that, we want to hand the mic back over to you and give you a chance to share your story. I’ve heard parts of it, but I want to turn over to you and just hear what it was like growing up. Who are you? Where do you come from?

Marcus Stroud: Yes, thanks a little bit about me. Who am I? Where do I come from? I grew up in a small town called Prosper, Texas. Prosper is about thirty minutes outside of Dallas Fort Worth. A lot of people know about Prosper now because we’re about ten minutes away from the headquarters of the Dallas Cowboys. My story, how I end up and prosper. My father was an NFL player from our sports reporter, and when I was young, my father actually watched my mother. And so my mom was a single mother, raised my brothers and I. And, you know, we had a pretty tough background, you know, growing up. But we were fortunate in that she had married an individual who had bought some land out prosper. We moved there kind of before the huge real estate boom that had happened in north Texas. And, yeah, that’s how we end up. And Prosper is a really, really cool time, because in Prosper, there was only like, I’d say, fifteen hundred people. But of the six or seven African-Americans that were in Prosper, five of them were famous athletes like Deon Sanders and Tori Hunter. And so I had a really cool opportunity to grow with some really cool.

Seen and live in a really cool town, so tell us about that, some of these athletes that you came across or any of them role models.

Yeah. So, you know, grow and prosper is cool because, like I said, it’s not that many people there. And so you have to access to these athletes and so you get to live with them and see them on a day to day basis. And so for me, being one of the few affluent African-Americans kind of in that area that wasn’t an athlete, they were always enamored by the fact that my family was well-off, but they weren’t athletes. And so we had many, many dinners where they talked about business with my mother and my stepfather. And it was just cool because a lot of these guys were looking for the next year in their life. And so a Tory would have, you know, a lot of his friends like Gary Sheffield and a ton of folks over. And they’d be asking my stepfather ideas about real estate or about music, and they’d be asking my mom questions about the radio because she was working in radio at the time. And so, you know, it was cool to see my mentors or people like Toriano where people like Deon Sanders growing up and, you know, they all had kids my age. And so we had a very competitive sports background. We had a bunch of Tier one athletes and that led to a lot of folks coming down to recruit. And so so it was just a very, very competitive environment. Super awesome. And, you know, those guys proved to be unbelievable for me later in my life, which I guess I’ll go into. You know, my mom and my stepfather had a lot of success and they were doing really well right before the financial crisis happens. We actually had an opportunity to host President Obama at our house for a fundraiser. And so they were looking for a rural kind of town that exemplified Texas, if you will, you know, that had hay bales and all that out there. And so they chose to come post them at our house. And so it was truly an insane moment, an opportunity for our family, because, you know, you had the soon to be president United States. You have several senators, you have several A-list celebrities. And, you know, you have a guy who’s just telling his story, if you will, and just trying to meet people as he’s running for president. And, you know, that kind of catapulted our family in a way that we then had a lot of celebrities reaching out to, is asking us for advice and want to become our friends. Because obviously, if you’re powerful enough to have the soon to be president, the United States in your home, you know, you must be somebody worth knowing. And so life was pretty crazy for me, I’d say, from the ages of 12 to 14, just because we had this connection, those type of relationships. And then the financial crisis happens, I’d say about eight or nine months into President Obama’s presidency. And we began to lose a lot of things. We had a lot of holdings in real estate and that started to kind of go south. His record label wasn’t doing too well. People were booking shows for a lot of the jazz artists that were his record label, as well as some of the Christian artists that were on his label. And so my step father began to kind of take it out on the family through kind of verbal abuse, eventually some physical abuse with my mother. And then one day it kind of got to the point where he said, Marcus, we’re throwing you guys out. I’m throwing your mom out. You got a choice. You can stay with me in this beautiful mansion. We have all these cars. I’ll take care of you or you can live with your mom. Of course, we’re going to go live with my mother. And so, you know, that was kind of one of the first times in my life I would say I had really had to rely on God is probably the best way to put that. You know, I’ve grown up extremely grateful. You know, my grandfather became a great grandfather was Dick. And, you know, we have several ministries in our family. I was baptized at four years old. I know Jesus my whole life at that point. But I never had been faced with adversity like that, you know? And we just joined the Church of the Family.

And I remember standing up to join the church. The pastor said to us, you know, when you choose to truly follow Christ, when you choose to truly follow Jesus, that is when the enemy tries to attack you sometimes the hardest because you know so much of a threat you are.

And we saw it firsthand.

You know, it was just so crazy to me that you just really dove into your faith. You just joined the church as a family. You just try to believer, as I’m a true believer now you kind of are homeless. And so anyway, after you left, my mom and my brothers and I go, we ended up kind of homeless living with my aunt. She had a two bedroom apartment and it was six of us living there. And so we only had one car. And we commute from her town of McAllen, Texas, to prosper every morning before the tollway in North Texas was built. So, you know, like fifty stoplights. And so it takes like an hour some change to get school. And, you know, we didn’t have any money. And so here we are kind of migrated from living in this beautiful man. Should have a president of United States in your home, having people like Martin Lawrence, you know, downstairs drinking beer with your step that you’re five deep to a car. You know, you’re getting at school. I’d say three thirty four in the morning because your aunt has to be at work in South Dallas by about eight a.m.. A browser to be an elementary, your mom has to be whatever gate she had at the time. And so that was a very, very tough time for me. But it was in those moments where I feel like my faith really became the center of my life.

Henry Kaestner: That’s really powerful. That’s incredible. So tell us what happens next. You go from. Really haven’t at all people looking to you, you probably some level of your identity is coming from the fact of, you know, who’s in your house to really having that all taken away. You lean into your faith and really dedicated committed to your mother, bringing out the other side of that. So you’re being formed. And what I understand some of your life as an athlete, that you’ve worked really, really, really hard in academics, but also just to make the football team and be there, just bring it through as you’re becoming a young adult. What happens next?

Marcus Stroud: Sure. Yeah. So I felt like my whole life up until that point, I was the definition of an offensive player. I wasn’t super aggressive. I love to get the ball. I was very much a happy go lucky kid who just loved to score touchdowns. And of course, would tease me because I’d never want to be tackled. I just wanted to run and score touchdowns. And I think when that adversity hit my family. I would say football was the greatest place I saw a change in how I approach life. I went from being this really skinny kid who just wanted to score touchdowns to your game to the three thirty four in the morning. You had nothing to do except lift. And I was a skinny guy. And so for me, that was my kind of sanctuary, if you will, was going to that weight room and just lifting and lifting when the coaches around and just kind of getting after it. And we couldn’t play any hip hop music in. Our coaches would get to the way they would get to the office around 5:00 a.m. So I would just play worship music and play old school rock and working out so that worship in that rock just really got me fired up every morning. And I just heard God’s voice. So clearly, Marcus, I am doing some things for you that you don’t know right now. You just have to keep working hard. You have to keep working hard. You have to demonstrate excellence. And I’d always ask myself, God, you know, this guy like, why do I have to demonstrate excellence? I’m the one who’s going home to no home, if you will. You know, I’m the one who when I did eventually get a car from my first car from my grandparents, I couldn’t afford to drive back to my aunt’s house. So I would sleep in the parking lot at Wal-Mart or Whataburger because I didn’t have enough gas to go back and forth between the colony and prosper. You want me to demonstrate excellence? You want me to demonstrate you. But I’m sleeping in my car here at Wal-Mart here at Burger. Then I’m coming in here and I’m getting after it and I’m busting my butt on the field. And I was so angry for so long because I was like, why me? Why me? And then I just stopped asking, why me? And I just started trusting his plan. And so I was always a really, really good student. But I sort of take it to the next level and school for me, I didn’t really care about getting good grades. I just cared about doing well enough in the classroom and doing the best I could on the field to get myself a scholarship to a really good school identically because I had seen my dad who was in the NFL, who did do well after a couple of years in NFL with money and etc.. I see what happened to him. And I said, God, if it’s your will for me to be a professional football player one day, you can make that happen from any school in America. But I know you’re calling me to be an example to other men, especially African-American men, someone who can rise to the top academically as well as politically and build something from that. And so my life kind of at that point was let me be the best I can and everything I do. And so eventually I became the first to your captain in my school history. I became the first four year class president in my school’s history.

It was funny right around the time the four year class president was actually five years. I was president from eighth grade through my senior year.

Yeah, for your class president. And, you know, it was on honor roll everything. President of FDE. I was doing all the right things. I won three presidents community service awards for serving hundreds and hundreds of hours of community service each year. I had one two mock trial competitions as one of the top young my trial attorneys in Texas. And so I was doing all the right things. But I was also working three jobs. I was working at a construction company, a barbecue restaurant in high school and high school. Yeah, as well as Abercrombie and Fitch. And, you know, I just didn’t really have any joy, if you will, because I didn’t really live a regular childhood. I’ll do the working or I was working competitively in sports where I was working academically. And so it was just continuous grind, grind, grind, grind. And I didn’t really understand it at that time, but I knew that God would send me something special. So anyway, my senior year comes around, you know, I’m starting to get some opportunities in football. You know, I’ve been man all state and things are going really well for me. And then, you know, one day we have a really, really big game against one of the top teams in the state of Texas. And I’m going against one of the top tackles in the state of Texas. And the kid beat me up. Basically, he wins the one on one. And I remember my coaches pulling me into the office after the game saying, hey, man, we know there’s not a lot going on, you know, for you at home right now. We know that you guys just lost your house because we got it home. We got evicted from it. We want to help you. And so my coach had offered to help me and, you know, financial ways and connect with people.

And they said, I think all the people we really want you to kind of buddy up with and get to know. Well, as Tori Hunter is just kind of how Tori came in my life. Tori son, always one of my best friends. He was one of our star football players also. But is that really became kind of a surrogate father, if you will? And so Tori and his wife, Sarah, mom, dad said, look, we’re going to take Marcus and we’re going to help your family out. We’re going to give you guys money so you can have some money set aside for a home over the next 12 months. But Marcus is going to live with us, you know, to go from work in ten thousand jobs, you know, busted by the school dealing with all the recruiting.

The tough part about the recruiting and the football thing was, you know, coaches like come to your house when they’re paying you a visit. We didn’t have a home to come to. So I always had to be coach at a restaurant or at my school in a weight room. And so it was so embarrassing. But now that he was in my life that when I was done with these guys, they could come by the house and in all these things. So it’s like my life was transformed overnight and it was just so, so humbling because, you know, you have one of the at at the time. You like the high speed MLB player, you have the highest paid baseball player essentially taking care of you, giving you everything you need, you know, you’re living with your best friends, his kids, and you’re just living this incredible life, but your family still trying to find their way. And so it was kind of a weird time for me because, yes, I was so grateful to have God bless my family through these unique ways, through touring and through other folks that I stepped into our life. But at the same time, I hated the fact that I was living this glamorous life that my family was struggling. So from there, I had the opportunity to actually go play football at Princeton. You know, I was being recruited by them as being recruited by a couple of the schools. And when it came down to it, I prayed about it. And the Lord, it just kind of showed me that prison was a place to go. And so, yeah, that’s kind of where my childhood, I guess, thought, if you will, and the Lord has blessed with incredible opportunity to go play ball at Princeton.

Henry Kaestner: So this is a great time and I should have done this at the outset. Marcus is an incredible story, an amazing story. I should have introduced my co-host for the future of an investor podcast up front. Don’t worry, William isn’t going anywhere. William continues to be part of faith driven entrepreneurs this Rusty. But as we continue to launch the movement, a feature of investing and I think that will in listening land, we can all agree that Luke’s job as emcee of the featured investor conference was second to none. And so with the momentum from that, we’ve asked him to come on board and dysmorphic driven investor podcast he’s on. And this is a great time for Luke to join best friend and business partner, super guy, really serious about the movement of veteran investing. He’s a practitioner in it. He is also a former college football player and had met Marcus and was the one that encouraged us to talk to him. So very appropriate that this is Luke’s debut. Luke, maybe you say a word and then just continue with the podcast, asking Marcus some questions, please.

Luke Roush: Yeah, thanks. Anyway, it’s good to be on. And Marcus could spend some time with you a couple of weeks ago, and it’s wonderful to have you on today. So just jumping right back into where Henry left off. So you graduate, you go to Princeton, you play there, obviously get a great education, then you get to work on Wall Street. Maybe just talk us through that transition. How did that feel in terms of your relationship with your family? And then you end up in this Ivy League school and on Wall Street, like just kind of walk us through what that felt like, what that what that was like?

Marcus Stroud: Yeah, it was incredible. You know, I think going to a school like that opened my eyes to a world I’d never seen before. And it was humbling because, you know, you go to school kids that went to, you know, some of the most prominent private schools in the world, their parents or some of the the biggest titans in their respective industries. And you know, that, er, if you will, becomes unbelievable to you in the sense that, like, wow, if I work really hard, I can achieve these things. But what stuck with me, though, I would say beginning my sophomore year in college, I didn’t like some of the alumni I had met, how they carry themselves. And let me unpack that. I didn’t like the fact that they may have been unbelievably successful. You didn’t see that Godlee there, if you will. It was very much their story. It was very much their identity, their success that that that that that. And I hated that because I saw so many of my teammates who began to follow that path. Also, I need to go to Wall Street to make X amount of money. I need to be rich. I need to be this and that. It just creates so much brokenness and so much just instability long term, if you will, by just having that type of mindset. And so anyway, I said, you know, that is a place I feel like God is called me to be. I feel like my ministry can be on Wall Street. And I’m not saying I can go into a firm and change that firm, if you will, as a first year associate. But if I can be someone who is on Wall Street but is striving to present a godly example, then what about the next Christian young man or woman who wants to be on Wall Street and has a hope and doing it because it’s so secular? What if I am able to encourage him to do it just by my example? And so anyway, that’s what led me to Wall Street. And so I began my career on Wall Street. And, you know, the first day of work, the very first day of work, I’m getting ready to leave my apartment in Tribeca and make my way up to Midtown. And my brother calls me and he’s like, Hey, man, I hate to bother you. I know it’s your first day of work. I know it’s super early, but I need some money to catch a cab. The Praxis right now. Let me catch cab. Do you guys want a car like you don’t have? You guys, last time I checked, your house wasn’t that far from high school. What do you mean you need money? It goes well, Marcus. We’ve actually been living in a shelter the last month. And you got to the point where we’ve been here so long that, you know, we’re going to probably be kicked out soon. You know, we need some help. And I’m starting football today. And I don’t want my teammates know that I’m homeless. And I think for me, like, I get the image in my head when I think about where I was when I got that call, it just shook me up because it’s like no matter how hard we work, no matter how much we sacrifice, no matter how much we prayed, no matter how faithful we think we have been, it makes me think of a story, a job. It’s like we’re still struggling, you know, even though I am, if you will, successful. We’re. Still struggling, even though my middle brother is going to pull out of Purdue, they’re still struggling. And so that’s what it was like, you know, and so I began my career there and I sent them some money. I just got a signing bonus that day, sums of money. And that was part of my time in New York. It was, you know, you bust your butt, you work hard, you’re doing your thing, you’re grinding. You’re trying to be the best young associate possible. But you’re not like your friends. You’re not like your colleagues. You don’t just go home or you don’t just look forward to the vacation. You’re going to take the Turks and Caicos and you look forward to bonus season and thinking about the next Rolex you’re going to buy or the next pair of Gucci loafers you’re going to buy, you’re literally saying, how can I save up enough money to be able to send my family a meaningful amount of capital, but also be able to start saving away, you know, for things like rings when I want to marry the woman I’m dating or just little things like that, you’re just thinking in a different mindset than a lot of your peers. And so that was a very challenging time for me just because a lot of times my head wasn’t where my college head was.

Luke Roush: Yeah, I think that’s sensible. I watched a number of my teammates, you know, when I was playing in college, too, just had not completely dissimilar experiences. And so that can be hard in terms of just kind of building community and feeling a part of what’s going on. So just on the Wall Street front, maybe talk through a little bit of how your faith played out in that world, which is, you know, oftentimes thought of as being kind of a dark, isolated place. How did that play out for you?

Marcus Stroud: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people see Wall Street and they think of movies like The Wolf of Wall Street. And I would say, given my youth, a lot of those Praxis are definitely bad now. And you see some of those things that occur in the office the way they probably used to do back in the day. But at the same time, I would say the mentality is still very much there. You know, it was still very much a cutthroat environment. Money was still top of mind for people, not morality. And that’s tough because if you’re not bought into the place to work and it’s just like being an athlete, if you’re not bought into the team, if you’re not bought into the motto and mentality of the team that you’re playing for, you’re not going to be a good teammate. You’re not going to be able to fulfill your potential as an athlete. And I think the same way can be said for Wall Street. At the same time, you need to make money and you need to be successful, you know, to live it. So you try to, in a unique way, be a hybrid of sorts, be someone who is unbelievably hungry, unbelievably scrappy, demonstrating the tenacity that a lot of Wall Street folks look for in to an analyst. But also you’re trying to demonstrate what it’s like to be a man of God while on the trading floor, you know, and that’s being someone that’s kind, someone that’s gentle, someone that’s humble and someone that demonstrates the qualities of a godly man or woman, if you will. And so that was tough because you didn’t really have any examples around you. You know, it’s like when you’re playing sports, you have upperclassmen who you can look at who do things the right way in the way they do things, the right way on the field. And you want to follow that, you know, and then they do things the right way off the field. You don’t see them doing stupid stuff on a Friday night or Saturday night. You know, they’re doing the right thing all around the clock for me. I didn’t really have that, if you will, in front of me at the firm. I was at it. So they’re all really, really good people, but good as it gets to the head of it. And so, you know, I had to kind of go above and beyond. And so I was fortunate that I had teammates who I walk with through my four years in college spiritually, and they now become part of Wall Street also. And they were working at some really cool banks. And so we would get together, we would go to church together, we would have a small group together. We would pray together during the week and we’d say, hey, man, like, how can I be praying for you this week? You know, as you’re working on, these trades are going to be praying for you this week as you had these tough meetings with your bosses or as bonuses and comes around. And it’s very easy to get swayed by the dollar amounts and to lose sight of the fact that God is ultimately going to provide you the provision that you need. And so that’s what it was like for me as a Christian on Wall Street is just continually searching and searching and searching for examples and mentors and people to look to. When I realized at the end, like, hey, man, God hasn’t called you to look for humans as examples of him. He’s called you to be rude in scripture and to get your example from scripture first and foremost. And so that was probably something that really changed my life, knowing that scripture had to be first and foremost for me as I look for resources to be an example of Christ in the workplace.

Henry Kaestner: OK, I want to fast forward now to what you do. You’re an investor. This is the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. And I want to get into what you’re doing, but I can’t do that without telling you about CIC First Clubhouse Investment Club. What was that? What problem were you looking to solve? Bring us into an investment career?

Marcus Stroud: Yes, that’s really my firm in New York. I work for a fund in Austin. Longevity considered as focused hedge fund. Really, really awesome. Learned so. I had a chance to be a part of their one point seven billion dollars class vehicle that was on the advisory board and then a couple other funds they had worked on. And it really gave me a tremendous amount of exposure to the alternative asset class. And just as I was going to go work for another fund, I would say pure fun of the one I was at. Tauri calls me and he says, Hey, Marcus, I’d love for you to be a part of the clubhouse. And so in 2011, in 2010, there was a third party called Broke Town, why athletes go broke and end up being one of the top three players using the release. And a lot of those guys in that theater for 30 Winfried Substory with a bunch of those guys were friends and stories growing up. And so I grew up around these guys. I mean, I knew them pretty well. And so toread created the clubhouse. And that’s required as a way for athletes to co-invest alongside primitivist capital for a premier private equity funds and for some of those guys to be direct LPs in those funds to those guys would kind of bring their money together and have an LP position, because, you know, a lot of these guys figure out how much money they make. They didn’t have enough capital to be LPs by themselves and acquire Perkins’ or a Koslov interest. Fine. But they had enough as a group to be an LP, if you will. And so that was the clubhouse. It’s my job in the clubhouse was I really took it over. So I manage all the relationships with athletes. I manage the relationships with the managers in which the athletes were working with some of those funds. And I helped them get deal flow from CDC. Every A is kind of what we focused on, got the guys really awesome opportunities. And yet I was kind of like a liaison, if you will, between them and some of the top four in Silicon Valley.

Luke Roush: That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing on that. And it had to be a lot of fun just being able to work and operate in that space and also being able to just improve access for some special people to be able to get access to the funds that otherwise wouldn’t be accessible. How did you bridge kind of from that into tech savvy and want to hear more about what you’re doing there?

Marcus Stroud: Yes. So doing the clubhouse was, like you said, it was an unbelievable dream. I mean, I’m literally working with some of the guys I’ve looked up to my whole life on the field and, you know, some of the most well-known athletes in the world. But there is a major opportunity. And it’s like for me, I never had a dream of being entrepreneurial, if you will, early in my life.

I feel like this is one of the first times in my professional career where does tangibly was showing me through people in three things, the path that he wanted me to take, because this was never my dream in my head. My dream was, you’re going to work at a fund, then work with this fund, you’re going to do well, and then you’ll probably end up at a firm like TPG for 10 or 15 years. You’ll see well there maybe stay open. Maybe you’ll try to break ranks there and that’s going to be it, essentially, and then you’ll find other things to be passionate about.

I never thought this early in my life I would throw the entrepreneurial out. And so at Club House, I was meeting some really, really awesome people.

And one of the people I met was a guy named Bret Jones. And Bret was a incredible tight end for the San Francisco Forty Niners who eventually went on to have a really, really awesome, you know, private equity capital career where he started a phone call working capital was at its peak, was a four point four billion fund of funds. And so he had used the scrappiness of being a star 49ers football player to get access to Sequoia in 1992 and Excel and all these other great fun super early on. And then he eventually raise the funds to be helped in those funds.

And so he ended up moving to Southlake, which is a suburb outside Dallas with his wife. Once he got down, lived in the valley, and we were introduced through another NFL player named Steve Wasniewski. And so, Brittny, you know, we got breakfast and then we had coffee and we would just talk about life, talk about what it means to be a man of God in that space and how it was for him starting a foot in one day just kind of said to me, you can do it, man. He gave me kind of that conviction that I could do it. He said, you can start a fight. I think the courthouse is cool. I think it’s awesome. But you’re a unique guy. You’re a type of guy who entrepreneurs love and you’re the type of guy that investors are going to like also. So anyway, after I met with Brett, I said I need to go talk to more people. If I to start a fund, I need to go talk to more people because, yes, the clubhouse is such a cool opportunity. But I know we’re missing something and maybe being a starter fund or maybe it means I should enhance certain aspects of the clubhouse. So we went out to San Francisco, we met with my partner and I met with David Crane, Google Ventures, and you see over there. And he had said, you haven’t it, if you will. He’s like, you’re lucky, guys. Those are the words you use. You’re a lucky guy. You’re one of those guys where a lot of good things happens to you. And those aside, people are going to be really, really, really good investors and become really successful in this space. And his word was luck. My word that I was hearing was favor. And so I said, well, you know, if this man can see from his position that favor the guy that afforded me in my life, maybe I should take the next step. And so we decide to start a fund.

And the reason we want to start a fund is because we saw a tremendous amount of opportunity. As a firm in Texas, if you will, this is right around the time Austin was really becoming the hot alternative to Silicon Valley, we saw a really cool opportunity to start a fund in Austin that could represent the future of diversity. I don’t mean a firm that is like all black or firm. That’s all male or firm. That’s all Ivy League or firm that like, you know, fill in homogenous group, whatever you want there. A firm that truly could represent the future that had men and women of all different backgrounds that invested in some of the most innovative entrepreneurs that we could find and didn’t really care in terms of what color they were, what gender they were just a really unique find that truly exemplified what the future is going to look like. And that’s what I want to start. And then more importantly, I wanted to create a firm that my kids would want to work at one day and that my kids friends want to work at one day that I would have gone to work at and college, a firm that was led by godly men, you know, that were kind or gentle or meek. But we’re still some scrappy some of the guns. We’re still hungry and we’re still going to find some really awesome returns. And we’re going to still to teach investors some of the best technologies alongside some of the children in the valley. That is what we want to create. And so that is why we created it. And so it was tough because early on, you know, my co-founder and I happen to be black.

A lot of people were quick to label us as the diversity investors and as the fund that was focused exclusively on minority entrepreneurs. And don’t get me wrong, I respect funds like that. We need those funds. The fact that women and minorities receive less than one percent of U.S. dollars goes to show that you need funds dedicated to those type of entrepreneurs. But that’s not who we want to be. We didn’t want to be put in a bubble. We wanted to just be some really cool guys that entrepreneurs like to work with that invested in entrepreneurs we thought were best for our fun and contributors. And so that’s our story. So within a couple of months after spin out of the clubhouse, we convinced some the clubhouse guys to give us some seed capital to get going. We started thinking we got a little bit of press. And I would say this is kind of you know, we’ve got has shown some favor in us, know, I would say like maybe two months in starting the fund. We’re sitting behind a white board, we work office and we get a cold call from this random number. And this guy on the other line says, hey, my name is so-and-so from TPG. I’d love to have you guys come in and talk to us. And I’m like TPG, the firm, like the piece. You go like this, guys, it’s possible this is not really cheap, but it was really TVG in that meeting, the founders of the firm and some of them thought it’s a little bit of our story. And what was really cool about that and why that’s relevant to this podcast right now. We got up and we told our story and we did it subconsciously, but we talked about how much God had done for us in our lives and how we felt this was our ministry, if you will, to grow his kingdom and to give back to this space. And you could tell some of the people in the room, a lot of folks who were believers were kind of like thrown off by that. But there were a couple of people in the audience who were clapping their hands and their faces just lit up because how many times have they seen folks in their space come before a room of, say, two hundred and fifty people in their Fort Worth and their San Francisco office and say, hey, we are here because of the grace of God and we’re going to build a fund that reflects that. And so, yeah, that was kind of the moment we knew, like, it’s going to be a very tough, difficult road, but we need to be here.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah. So Supermoto, tell us, what does it look like to build a fund from the get go we’ve got at the center? What does that mean that you do and how are you thinking how TV is different than every other fund that’s out there then TPG So it starts with the thought.

Marcus Stroud: Leadership, in my opinion, always starts at the top. And so it’s about how do you care for people in your firm? How do you care for people when you have a small firm that many people? How do you care with your service providers? How are you being a steward of the capital, your investment trust you with? And so tangibly, how does that look? How often are we talking at team about ways in which we can improve his teammates and as members, how are we handling conflict with each other? OK, we disagree about something. Are we yelling at each other or are we saying choice words or are we demonstrating what it looks like to be brothers in Christ and talk to conflict in a godly way? We’re praying about it. We’re bringing it to elder council and they’re counseling us through it. And so that is kind of how we did. And so every Monday morning at about 7:00 a.m., we all sit down for coffee. We talk about our weekends to talk about kind of what’s on our heart. We pray for each other through everything that’s going on in our lives. You know, we asked you, like, hey, how can I be better towards you? We have candid conversations like that and we go from there. And the thing is, when you do the little things right, it carries over into the big things. So if you do the little things right by talking to your teammates the right way in the office, by talking to your service providers, even though they may have done something that wasn’t good for your firm, but by treating them with kindness and respect. It carries over into how you talk to entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs that eventually do is there’s something about you guys, there’s something about you guys, you know, like I don’t know what it is that there’s something about you guys. Maybe it’s the fact that you’re Texas, you know, it’s actually just such nice people. And that becomes your mantra. And it’s like, yeah, there is something about us, you know, the Holy Spirit is in his office. The Holy Spirit is in each of us, and that’s how we do business. And so I think we try to actively hold each other accountable spiritually, you know, physically, emotionally. And that contributes to the culture of our firm, which eventually, hopefully, as it grows, will be Amen would be something that entrepreneurs can see right away, that these guys are just different. This is not like talking to typical VC private equity fund.

Luke Roush: So, Marcus, you and I had a good conversation just about the journey with TPG specifically. And, you know, the fact that it was, you know, mixed reaction to you bearing witness testimony to, you know, what God is doing in and through you and your business partner. How has that story and that, you know, active testimony played out on the fundraising trail? You know, we’ve had experiences personally and, you know, prior to sovereigns professionally with, you know, that going over like a lead balloon. What’s it been like for you if you’ve borne witness?

Marcus Stroud: Yeah. So I think for us, we kind of hit the mark at the right time. So our fund, we focused supposedly on human performance within his reformist health policies as well as sort of price. And so for us, our investment thesis, if you will, definitely was suited for this kind of time, if you will. And so we’ve been lucky that that’s resonating with people. But I will say that being a young, diverse fun in a place like Texas definitely has its challenges.

And I don’t see it has its challenges because we’re black or whatever. It’s just like this is a state in which this asset class historically has been kind of the bread and butter of the state. And so there’s a reason there probably zero diverse funds in the state of Texas. You know, you have to go probably to Atlanta to the next closest place in the south where there is a little bit of diversity. But, yeah, it’s been tough. I would say. On one hand, we’ve been fortunate to have received the support from folks like Karta, Motley Fool and other interesting and unique strategic groups. On the other hand, it’s like a lot of people, it’s tough for them to, I guess, understand the bigger vision, because when we tell people is we’re not just an investment fund. You’re not just investing in a VC, but you’re not just going to get quarterly updates. This is not just a regular basis upon which you’re investing in. And you try to see that in a way that can resonate with, say, a nonbeliever. And it’s a little bit difficult.

You know, and one of the things that I remember we told of our first investor that resonate with him and why he wrote a check like we have a chance to have an impact on this world in a way that few funds can probably do just given where we are, the timing of the world right now and just some of the folks that the Lord has put into our life. And we were fortunate in that we did a talk, if you will, or I guess an episode on NBC Press here in San Francisco.

And we did that and it got in the hands of a lot of people and we ended up getting a letter. It was address San Quentin State Prison. And when I saw that, I thought, oh, gosh, you know, what’s one of my family members in San Quentin State Prison? And you saw this thing out in San Francisco. I was so worried. I was like, oh, my goodness, what is this? That we open it and it’s a letter from an inmate and it won’t say his name. But in the letter he says, I saw you guys on ABC Press here and I saw what you were talking about and I saw the energy you guys were talking with. And I saw I heard the goals of your firm. And it just gave me so much hope and joy behind these bars. You know, I was framed for burglary and I served four years here. And I take an entrepreneurship class here. And one of the things that I’ve learned is that, like, it’s very difficult to be successful in business, but also be godly. And seeing a young man like yourself, you know, on a platform such as NBC press here in the heart of Silicon Valley, while based in Texas, just kind of gave me a lot of hope that when my time is up here, there may be opportunities to meet people like you who may give me a chance one day.

And that letter kind of just is stuck with me because it’s like you don’t know who the Lord has for you and your life. You don’t know what impact you can give to people. You just don’t know. It just goes to show that you’re playing. It’s not your own. It’s not you’re just a part of this kind of a you’re just a puzzle piece in his creative planet. That’s it. And so I guess between the people, we’ve had a chance to in fact, the folks who’ve been introduced to, you know, it’s been mixed. On one hand, we’ve gotten some, like I said, investor commitments from some of the top unique groups in this country. And then on the other hand, you know, it’s been tough. Difficult to find LP’s that resonate with your mission. And so, yeah, that’s kind of how the country has been.

Henry Kaestner: Thanks for sharing. That’s awesome. Marcus Marcus, one of the things that we always like to do when we close out every podcast is unfortunately, we have to do now is to understand what you’re hearing from God through his word. One of the things we love to point our listeners back to is just how important it is to spend time on God’s word every day. And so it doesn’t for you doesn’t necessarily mean be something that you learn this morning, but maybe something over the last week or last month that you feel has really encouraged and equipped you and and what you and your partner of get going.

Marcus Stroud: Yeah, for sure. I’m excited to answer this question, too. Last week, I turned 27 and I was at my prom school in Akron, Ohio. And when I got there, I met a guy by the name of Aeneas Williams, and this was the Hall of Fame quarterback who is now a pastor in the NFL. And this is an unbelievable man. And this was actually my dad’s teammate on the Cardinals and my mom, my whole life is said to be Marcus. There’s one person I want you to meet in your life. In sports, it has to be a news. WILLIAMS We were in Bible study with him and his wife for a long time. He’s an incredible man. He’s someone who’s going to put a lot of prayer into the second. You mean and I just know God has told me that one day you will meet the needs. So I meet a need is when I met the event last week. And I just really, like, turn around and like God. Oh, my goodness. Wow. The day before my birthday, you really are hearing about it and had been praying, oh, my flight there is like, Lord, show me what you want for me this year. Show me how you want me to live my life this year in terms of through this forum and just through my life. And so when I met with a nurse, we end up getting together for dinner. We have been together for a lot of things. You could tell that God was at work, strategically, put us together so we could talk. And another gentleman that was with a niece, with a guy named Sean Alexander, Sean was a great running back for the Seattle Seahawks. That would be so anyway, Sean and a nice guy just put our hearts to kind of just minister, can’t we minister to these few days and man, the amount of fruit they poured in my life, the amount of just things they blessed me with was just so unbelievable. And it was something that I needed to hear and it was something that I could tell God was just saying clearly to me through them. And I think what I’ve learned is the importance of truly, truly sacrificing things around you to just listen to the God’s voice. And that means, you know, cleaning out your mornings to where you’re not distracted by the work that you’re trying to accomplish before seven thirty. You’re not distracted by all the emails that popped up the night before that you want to get you right away. It’s simply waking up and giving it to God. First and foremost, beginning your day with God, God only. That’s it. Don’t put on any hype music to get you going. Don’t do any of that. Just simply listen to God’s voice. Do it by reading scripture, do about meditating, do about praying, whatever works for you, but just truly giving the first few hours of your day to Christ. And when I tell you, both of them kind of recommend that to me. And it’s been a Praxis I’ve done now for like the last four days, it has been life changing and it has brought me so much joy by just dedicating an hour, not ten minutes, not five minutes, but an hour, hour and a half to Jesus first thing in the morning. And so that’s kind of what he showed me. Just, hey, you know, this is my firm. Your life is dedicated to me. I get to start the day.

Henry Kaestner: And it’s been like, wow, what an incredible witness that you might provide to some of these entrepreneurs that you’re investing in.

You know, being an entrepreneur is one of the most stressful positions in life, and they’re trying to understand the meaning of identity and why they’re working so hard. And that’s one of the reasons why entrepreneurship is one of the biggest areas of mental illness and even suicide. And for you to be able to show that it’s not just kind of a check, the back ten minute thing is I am all too often guilty of doing but real intentional time. I made an incredible impression on me and our listeners. I’m sure it’s going to make an incredible impression on those you invest in.

Marcus Stroud: Thank you. Yeah, I’m so grateful that God kind of showed me that over the last few weeks. When I tell you it has been life changing, I try to encourage all my friends to start doing it. It’s it’s been beautiful.

Henry Kaestner: It’s been a special treat having you on the program. I’m grateful for your time. I’m grateful for your faithfulness and what God caused you to do. I’m excited for what’s next for you. And I just want to pray for your heavenly father. We lift up Marcus and we celebrate the great work you’ve done in his life from the beginning. And dear Lord, we ask for favor and protection. We ascended. You will help him to find the right deals to invest in. We ask that you would help us to find the right investors that would come alongside him. We pray for blessings on this partnership. Said they would work together well, and that gives me great time to reflect and be grateful for the partner that I’ve got and the partners that I’ve got.

Dear Lord, we just ask that you would allow Marcus to hear more from you. His identity would be fully rooted in you and that you would give him opportunity to be able to be a great witness with gentleness and respect, but a great witness nonetheless. And when he shows excellence and shows love to. All of these things in Jesus name, amen.

Host: Thank you so much for joining us on today’s show. We’re very, very grateful for the opportunity to serve the larger faith driven investor community. Hey, the best way for you to stay connected is to sign up for our monthly newsletter at Faith Driven Investor Dog. And while you’re there, we, of course, want to hear from you. We derive great joy from interacting with many of you. And it’s been very rewarding to see people join the discussion now from all around the world. But it’s also very important to us that you feel like this is your show and that you’ll help make it something that best equips you on your journey, one that you’re proud of and one that you’ll share with others. This podcast, it wouldn’t be possible without the help from many of our friends. Executive producer Justin Forman, program director Johnny Will’s music by Carl Cagle. You can see and hear more of his work at summer drag’s dotcom and audio and editing by Richard Bahle of Cornerstone Church in San Francisco.